Tribes:Ascend Forums

FAQ • Login • Register

Automatic weapon balance?
Author	Message
Varnas Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:25 am Posts: 772 Location: Lithuania	Re: Automatic weapon balance? TeaL3af wrote: Varnas wrote: TeaL3af wrote: B. I only think the automatics are a problem for heavies, but I would like them to be less effective overall. Just slightly lower the base damage, but give Heavier armours resistance to bullets: Light: 0% damage reduction Medium: 15% damage reduction Heavy: 40% damage reduction The exceptions would be: CG, LMG and Sniper Rifles. The CG and LMG should ignore about 50% of the bullet resistance whilst the Sniper Rifles should ignore all of it. Plasma gun should count as a bullet weapon for the sake of balance. If you think they are a problem only for heavies, your not thinking right, I don't see many instances of a medium or light being taken from full hp to nothing just with an auto. You generally need at least one decent projectile hit to get things started. Whilst with heavies I can just land every single shot and kill them in <3 seconds. I have to disagree, been playing smg tech for a couple of days, with the smg only ive been able to clear entire gen rooms, kill multiple lights swarming me, outdpsing soldiers with ARs and manage to assault 2 juggernauts (both with MKDs) and kill them with little to no effort
Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:44 am

Pkunk Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:42 am Posts: 351	Re: Automatic weapon balance? No need for this thread anymore. Hi-rez just added another option in the poll. E - Add something that is even more annoying than the spam guns so folks complain about that instead. Hello Plasma!
Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:08 am

DibbzTheLoner Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am Posts: 1616 Location: Australia Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz	Re: Automatic weapon balance? TeaL3af wrote: B. I only think the automatics are a problem for heavies, but I would like them to be less effective overall. Just slightly lower the base damage, but give Heavier armours resistance to bullets: Light: 0% damage reduction Medium: 15% damage reduction Heavy: 40% damage reduction The exceptions would be: CG, LMG and Sniper Rifles. The CG and LMG should ignore about 50% of the bullet resistance whilst the Sniper Rifles should ignore all of it. I think you'd like this balance idea then: [Idea/Balance] Armour Penetration stat/rating on guns? Puts that same kind of idea into an visible weapon stat with many possible differences in balance between weapons without being overly complex or difficult to understand. The thread numbers are all based off player feedback ^^ _________________ This signature is green. I like the colour green. Wait, why are you still reading? It should be obvious that this signature is pointless and just here to be green. Stop reading already! You're procrastinating too much!
Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:36 am

Mikala Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:03 pm Posts: 108	Re: Automatic weapon balance? I went minor as they just need a slight tweak so they are not so much of a better choice. What the tweak is ultimately I dont know. This can be worked in a lot of different ways and so many of them have already been mentioned. What I do want is to see it tweaked a little at a time. I don't want to see it nerfed to dust just brought more in line.
Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:13 am

HellToupee Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:28 pm Posts: 217	Re: Automatic weapon balance? Varnas wrote: HellToupee wrote: Except the LAR fires in bursts, its the worst smg in the game to actually use while the falcon is a cake walk among if not the easiest smg to hit with. Burst firing isnt a problem, its not even a downside, it actually alows for more careful aim...and if that doesnt work you can spam the button and shoot just as fast as other weapons Or use autofire script, many use it, and as i pointed out TCN4, Rhino and Falcon have the same RoF, projectile speed, so all three of these guns require the same amount of "skill" to use (well you dont need skill to use autos, still) and simply both TCN4 and Rhino have higher damage and clipsize compared to Falcon. You know what allows for more careful aim? Aiming carefully not burst fire, burst fire is a hindrance even if resorting to scripts it still has an uneven firerate resulting in gaps in the bullet stream rather than the constant hose that is the falcon not to mention its got one of the slowest projectile speeds and its supposed to be for chasing what the hell. TCN4 and rhino are primary weapons, to equip these weapons comes at huge opportunity cost to the classes actual role, does the falcon replace the sniper rifle no it does not.
Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:39 pm

HellToupee Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:28 pm Posts: 217	Re: Automatic weapon balance? DibbzTheLoner wrote: It's semi-automatic so just treat it as such - if you line up the first shot properly the following 2 in the burst are likely to hit, giving you a gun that essentially deals 240 damage per shot and can be fired more than 3 times per second. However you treat it a weapon like the falcon is easier to use, much much easier, press m1 wait for hit markers no need to line up shots just walk that fire.
Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:42 pm

irimi Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:37 am Posts: 478	Re: Automatic weapon balance? HellToupee wrote: However you treat it a weapon like the falcon is easier to use, much much easier, press m1 wait for hit markers no need to line up shots just walk that fire. ease of use != power TeaL3af wrote: I don't see many instances of a medium or light being taken from full hp to nothing just with an auto. You generally need at least one decent projectile hit to get things started. Whilst with heavies I can just land every single shot and kill them in <3 seconds. Join one of my games, pick a light class, and let me introduce you to the X1 LMG.
Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:13 pm

TeaL3af Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:30 pm Posts: 767	Re: Automatic weapon balance? DibbzTheLoner wrote: TeaL3af wrote: B. I only think the automatics are a problem for heavies, but I would like them to be less effective overall. Just slightly lower the base damage, but give Heavier armours resistance to bullets: Light: 0% damage reduction Medium: 15% damage reduction Heavy: 40% damage reduction The exceptions would be: CG, LMG and Sniper Rifles. The CG and LMG should ignore about 50% of the bullet resistance whilst the Sniper Rifles should ignore all of it. I think you'd like this balance idea then: [Idea/Balance] Armour Penetration stat/rating on guns? Puts that same kind of idea into an visible weapon stat with many possible differences in balance between weapons without being overly complex or difficult to understand. The thread numbers are all based off player feedback ^^ Think I even posted in that thread TeaL3af wrote: I don't see many instances of a medium or light being taken from full hp to nothing just with an auto. You generally need at least one decent projectile hit to get things started. Whilst with heavies I can just land every single shot and kill them in <3 seconds. Join one of my games, pick a light class, and let me introduce you to the X1 LMG.[/quote] I'm sure some players can totally rape with the autos, it doesn't really mean anything unless you are also playing against incredibly good projectile players.
Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:08 pm

irimi Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:37 am Posts: 478	Re: Automatic weapon balance? TeaL3af wrote: I'm sure some players can totally rape with the autos, it doesn't really mean anything unless you are also playing against incredibly good projectile players. I was responding primarily to your comment that you don't see lights/meds being taken out with just autos. My point is that as a Juggernaut or a Doombringer, you generally do exactly that - take out lights and mediums with just autos. The same for raiders and SMG Techs too, really. In the latter case, like Doombringers, they have no choice. In the former case, the NJ4 is just that good. The skill/ability of the target to use projectiles is irrelevant here.
Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:15 pm

Melampus Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:05 am Posts: 44	Re: Automatic weapon balance? C 50% nerf is major...but probably best starting point. However they shouldn't be taken out of game completely. Should be used when you know your other weapons have less than a 1% chance to hit due to speed/distance of target. But shouldn't be something that you know you're able to mow them down with half a clip even at those speeds/distance
Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:19 pm

Display posts from previous: Sort by

Automatic weapon balance?

Author

Message

Varnas

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:25 am
Posts: 772
Location: Lithuania

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

TeaL3af wrote:

Varnas wrote:

TeaL3af wrote:

B.
I only think the automatics are a problem for heavies, but I would like them to be less effective overall.

Just slightly lower the base damage, but give Heavier armours resistance to bullets:
Light: 0% damage reduction
Medium: 15% damage reduction
Heavy: 40% damage reduction

The exceptions would be: CG, LMG and Sniper Rifles. The CG and LMG should ignore about 50% of the bullet resistance whilst the Sniper Rifles should ignore all of it.

Plasma gun should count as a bullet weapon for the sake of balance.

If you think they are a problem only for heavies, your not thinking right,

I don't see many instances of a medium or light being taken from full hp to nothing just with an auto. You generally need at least one decent projectile hit to get things started.

Whilst with heavies I can just land every single shot and kill them in <3 seconds.

I have to disagree, been playing smg tech for a couple of days, with the smg only ive been able to clear entire gen rooms, kill multiple lights swarming me, outdpsing soldiers with ARs and manage to assault 2 juggernauts (both with MKDs) and kill them with little to no effort

Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:44 am

Pkunk

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:42 am
Posts: 351

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

No need for this thread anymore. Hi-rez just added another option in the poll.

E - Add something that is even more annoying than the spam guns so folks complain about that instead. Hello Plasma!

Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:08 am

DibbzTheLoner

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am
Posts: 1616
Location: Australia
Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

TeaL3af wrote:

I think you'd like this balance idea then: [Idea/Balance] Armour Penetration stat/rating on guns?

Puts that same kind of idea into an visible weapon stat with many possible differences in balance between weapons without being overly complex or difficult to understand. The thread numbers are all based off player feedback ^^

_________________
This signature is green. I like the colour green.
Wait, why are you still reading? It should be obvious that this signature is pointless and just here to be green.
Stop reading already! You're procrastinating too much!

Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:36 am

Mikala

Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:03 pm
Posts: 108

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

I went minor as they just need a slight tweak so they are not so much of a better choice. What the tweak is ultimately I dont know. This can be worked in a lot of different ways and so many of them have already been mentioned. What I do want is to see it tweaked a little at a time. I don't want to see it nerfed to dust just brought more in line.

Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:13 am

HellToupee

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:28 pm
Posts: 217

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

Varnas wrote:

HellToupee wrote:

Except the LAR fires in bursts, its the worst smg in the game to actually use while the falcon is a cake walk among if not the easiest smg to hit with.

Burst firing isnt a problem, its not even a downside, it actually alows for more careful aim...and if that doesnt work you can spam the button and shoot just as fast as other weapons

Or use autofire script, many use it, and as i pointed out TCN4, Rhino and Falcon have the same RoF, projectile speed, so all three of these guns require the same amount of "skill" to use (well you dont need skill to use autos, still) and simply both TCN4 and Rhino have higher damage and clipsize compared to Falcon.

You know what allows for more careful aim? Aiming carefully not burst fire, burst fire is a hindrance even if resorting to scripts it still has an uneven firerate resulting in gaps in the bullet stream rather than the constant hose that is the falcon not to mention its got one of the slowest projectile speeds and its supposed to be for chasing what the hell.

TCN4 and rhino are primary weapons, to equip these weapons comes at huge opportunity cost to the classes actual role, does the falcon replace the sniper rifle no it does not.

Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:39 pm

HellToupee

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:28 pm
Posts: 217

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

DibbzTheLoner wrote:

It's semi-automatic so just treat it as such - if you line up the first shot properly the following 2 in the burst are likely to hit, giving you a gun that essentially deals 240 damage per shot and can be fired more than 3 times per second.

However you treat it a weapon like the falcon is easier to use, much much easier, press m1 wait for hit markers no need to line up shots just walk that fire.

Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:42 pm

irimi

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 478

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

HellToupee wrote:

However you treat it a weapon like the falcon is easier to use, much much easier, press m1 wait for hit markers no need to line up shots just walk that fire.

ease of use != power

TeaL3af wrote:

Join one of my games, pick a light class, and let me introduce you to the X1 LMG.

Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:13 pm

TeaL3af

Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:30 pm
Posts: 767

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

DibbzTheLoner wrote:

TeaL3af wrote:

Think I even posted in that thread

TeaL3af wrote:

Join one of my games, pick a light class, and let me introduce you to the X1 LMG.[/quote]

I'm sure some players can totally rape with the autos, it doesn't really mean anything unless you are also playing against incredibly good projectile players.

Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:08 pm

irimi

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 478

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

TeaL3af wrote:

I'm sure some players can totally rape with the autos, it doesn't really mean anything unless you are also playing against incredibly good projectile players.

I was responding primarily to your comment that you don't see lights/meds being taken out with just autos. My point is that as a Juggernaut or a Doombringer, you generally do exactly that - take out lights and mediums with just autos.

The same for raiders and SMG Techs too, really. In the latter case, like Doombringers, they have no choice. In the former case, the NJ4 is just that good.

The skill/ability of the target to use projectiles is irrelevant here.

Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:15 pm

Melampus

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:05 am
Posts: 44

Re: Automatic weapon balance?

C

50% nerf is major...but probably best starting point.
However they shouldn't be taken out of game completely. Should be used when you know your other weapons have less than a 1% chance to hit due to speed/distance of target.

But shouldn't be something that you know you're able to mow them down with half a clip even at those speeds/distance

Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:19 pm

Forum rules

Automatic weapon balance?