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The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it
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DansonDelta-40 Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:10 pm Posts: 14 Steam Gamer Name: Danson Delta-40	The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it The Gen room on Raindance I've heard many a time ingame being complained about in one form o another. I would like to address why I support the one entrance, and why it is beneficial to both teams. 1.) Defending the flag carrier. A lot of people say that this is camping inside the base like a coward. however, the only time I've scene (And done this) is when my own team, or the enemy team, is being completely steamrolled. It is a nice way to balance out the teams, and force the losing team's terrible players to actually do something, as in, retrieve your flag and actually defending the flag carrier. 2.) The Gen stays alive VDG VDG VDG is all to common on a bad team. With this gen, all you need is a sniper's jammer and one man on D, saving more people for capping flags and defending your own. 3.) When the gen IS overtaken. When it is overtaken by the enemy one of two things occur in my experience. You get three guys perma locked in there, who just sit and wait for your team to come in for the slaughter. This can be beneficial, if your team is useless at Gen Defend, because you effectively have a whole bunch of enemy teammates staying inside because of one fellow who keeps going in to try and make it seem as though they are trying to clear the gen of them. this reduces the enemy's player count, who could actually be doing something useful, and half the time they are so focused on defending themselves or trapping your teammates, that they forget that the gen auto revives after a certain time, and will sit in their for nothing. The other is that you basically get free kills when you go in their as a raider with a plasma gun and completely destroy everyone in their. BTW I think the plasma gun is perfectly balanced. 4.) Balances teams As with defending the gen and flag carrier, a steamrolled team can start catching up. i've seen this happen many times, and it's refreshing to be able to ward of a steamrolling team. Please keep it civil and reply.
Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:24 pm

Haar-like Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:52 am Posts: 122	Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it VGN 1) cap for 1-0 (better team no problem) 2) grab the flag 2nd time and take it to the gen room 3) spam the entrance with 4-5 heavies not even coordinated attack can lodge that out _________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkGfYMQdq8A
Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:28 pm

DansonDelta-40 Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:10 pm Posts: 14 Steam Gamer Name: Danson Delta-40	Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it Haar-like wrote: VGN 1) cap for 1-0 (better team no problem) 2) grab the flag 2nd time and take it to the gen room 3) spam the entrance with 4-5 heavies not even coordinated attack can lodge that out 1.) Most people are too greedy for points to actually care about that. Who doesn't want to orbital strike the enemy base? 2.) Forces your team to actually be competent 3.) I've been a raider and never faced five, but i've faced four and won. They dont have the jets to stay afloat, and eventually fall to the ground. easy pickins.
Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:36 pm

everwinter23 Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:51 pm Posts: 117	Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it DansonDelta-40 wrote: Haar-like wrote: VGN 1) cap for 1-0 (better team no problem) 2) grab the flag 2nd time and take it to the gen room 3) spam the entrance with 4-5 heavies not even coordinated attack can lodge that out 1.) Most people are too greedy for points to actually care about that. Who doesn't want to orbital strike the enemy base? 2.) Forces your team to actually be competent 3.) I've been a raider and never faced five, but i've faced four and won. They dont have the jets to stay afloat, and eventually fall to the ground. easy pickins. What the hell is wrong with you? In that tight of quarters, it doesn't matter how long you can fly. If you get near a wall or ceiling, you are going to get instagibbed with fusors, if you somehow (highly doubtful) get in through the mortar and fractal spam. _________________ "Remember those, whom in memory are immortal..." ~ The Oath, Brothers of the Oath PM if interested.
Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:42 pm

mifly Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:24 am Posts: 913	Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it Haar-like wrote: VGN 1) cap for 1-0 (better team no problem) 2) grab the flag 2nd time and take it to the gen room 3) spam the entrance with 4-5 heavies not even coordinated attack can lodge that out I even played a game where both teams locked the enemy flag in gen room like that. To make gameplay more open, the entrance could be modified to allow to ski inside gen room, without losing speed.
Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:28 pm

FleurDeLis Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:01 pm Posts: 659	Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it DansonDelta-40 wrote: 3.) I've been a raider and never faced five, but i've faced four and won. They dont have the jets to stay afloat, and eventually fall to the ground. easy pickins. Proper raindance gen entrance spam involves multiple JUGs with the Mirv and timing the spam such that there's no space for you to sneak in, you want in, you eat MIRV damage. If anyone is gonna lack jets to stay afloat, it'd be you since you'd lose your energy bar shielding the mirv blast to survive. "I played against bads and won" is not an argument for retaining the ease of turtling Raindance's gen room.
Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:39 pm

illerFFN Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:52 pm Posts: 1174	Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it mifly wrote: VGNTo make gameplay more open, the entrance could be modified to allow to ski inside gen room, without losing speed. This. one entrance is only okay if you don't come to a deadstop trying to get through it. Last edited by illerFFN on Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:40 pm

FreaK367 Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm Posts: 587 Location: England Steam Gamer Name: FreaK	Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it Turtling is pathetic and slows the game down. All bases / Generator rooms need atleast 2 entrances, unless the single entrance is very big and open. The Raindance Generator rooms are horrible at the moment, single entrance, very compact. Makes it extremely easy to defend alone, a single Juggernaut can defend it with mindless spam, because the only way to get in is through a small gap into a small rectangle room, two choke points, even just outside the generator room is a choke point, with small walls to splash from and bounce spam off, with a base turret right in your face. And the inside, which is a problem with many generator rooms we have, is just too small. I think the entrance needs to be bigger, and the generator room itself should be expanded underground in all directions. And even better if another entrance was introduced, could be a path from the bottom of the flagstand tower, or just a man-made opening in the ground nearby. Turtling should not be a valid tactic, nor should a single person be able to prevent all access into the generator room with spam. _________________ Desired: Bind VGS commands to keys. Full XP Refund for free/gold. (cheap) Large Automatic Nerfs Decent Plasma Gun Nerf Large Jackal Nerf
Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:55 pm

noudesu Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:12 pm Posts: 22	Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it Haar-like wrote: VGN 1) cap for 1-0 (better team no problem) 2) grab the flag 2nd time and take it to the gen room 3) spam the entrance with 4-5 heavies not even coordinated attack can lodge that out If your team has that level of coordination, it would probably win anyway. All you need anyway is 4-5 brutes to bring in the disco balls and that flag carrier will quickly die. I don't see why teamwork is considered overpowered when the simple counter is to employ teamwork yourself.
Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:11 pm

ebonyknife Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 6:17 am Posts: 519	Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it if your even 1 point ahead, raindance turtling is virtually uncounterable in full pubs. no amount of coordination is going to get through 5-6 juggs (and the occasional frac-***) spamming the entrance (god help you if the entire team is doing it), no one lasts long enough, and there isnt even an ubercharge mechanic or something in this game to break the useless stalemate. Quote: If your team has that level of coordination, it would probably win anyway. It doesn't require any realistic coordination though. All it requires is the flag carrier to run in, and then everyone holds down M1 at the entrance, you don't even have to like, move your mouse. Oh and occasionally you have to refill at the inv station. Quote: All you need anyway is 4-5 brutes to bring in the disco balls and that flag carrier will quickly die. I don't see why teamwork is considered overpowered when the simple counter is to employ teamwork yourself. Enough juggs and the brutes won't even get far enough to throw the fractals anywhere useful. Remember mortars have huge splash damage, having more people charge in won't do anything when you just get AoE'd. The flag carrier (and the defenders for that matter) can easily hide up in that little balcony thing and become pretty much immune to the fractals you throw in. Quote: As with defending the gen and flag carrier, a steamrolled team can start catching up. i've seen this happen many times, and it's refreshing to be able to ward of a steamrolling team. Thats stupid. If you turtle in a losing situation, the enemy turtles, the flags stay put, then the enemy wins by default when the time limit runs out. _________________ Autos are fine, stop bitchin
Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:52 pm

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The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it

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DansonDelta-40

Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:10 pm
Posts: 14
Steam Gamer Name: Danson Delta-40

The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it

The Gen room on Raindance I've heard many a time ingame being complained about in one form o another. I would like to address why I support the one entrance, and why it is beneficial to both teams.

1.) Defending the flag carrier.

A lot of people say that this is camping inside the base like a coward. however, the only time I've scene (And done this) is when my own team, or the enemy team, is being completely steamrolled. It is a nice way to balance out the teams, and force the losing team's terrible players to actually do something, as in, retrieve your flag and actually defending the flag carrier.

2.) The Gen stays alive

VDG VDG VDG is all to common on a bad team. With this gen, all you need is a sniper's jammer and one man on D, saving more people for capping flags and defending your own.

3.) When the gen IS overtaken.

When it is overtaken by the enemy one of two things occur in my experience. You get three guys perma locked in there, who just sit and wait for your team to come in for the slaughter. This can be beneficial, if your team is useless at Gen Defend, because you effectively have a whole bunch of enemy teammates staying inside because of one fellow who keeps going in to try and make it seem as though they are trying to clear the gen of them. this reduces the enemy's player count, who could actually be doing something useful, and half the time they are so focused on defending themselves or trapping your teammates, that they forget that the gen auto revives after a certain time, and will sit in their for nothing.
The other is that you basically get free kills when you go in their as a raider with a plasma gun and completely destroy everyone in their. BTW I think the plasma gun is perfectly balanced.

4.) Balances teams

As with defending the gen and flag carrier, a steamrolled team can start catching up. i've seen this happen many times, and it's refreshing to be able to ward of a steamrolling team.

Please keep it civil and reply.

Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:24 pm

Haar-like

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:52 am
Posts: 122

Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it

VGN

1) cap for 1-0 (better team no problem)
2) grab the flag 2nd time and take it to the gen room
3) spam the entrance with 4-5 heavies not even coordinated attack can lodge that out

_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkGfYMQdq8A

Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:28 pm

DansonDelta-40

Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:10 pm
Posts: 14
Steam Gamer Name: Danson Delta-40

Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it

Haar-like wrote:

VGN

1) cap for 1-0 (better team no problem)
2) grab the flag 2nd time and take it to the gen room
3) spam the entrance with 4-5 heavies not even coordinated attack can lodge that out

1.) Most people are too greedy for points to actually care about that. Who doesn't want to orbital strike the enemy base?
2.) Forces your team to actually be competent
3.) I've been a raider and never faced five, but i've faced four and won. They dont have the jets to stay afloat, and eventually fall to the ground. easy pickins.

Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:36 pm

everwinter23

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:51 pm
Posts: 117

Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it

DansonDelta-40 wrote:

Haar-like wrote:

VGN

1) cap for 1-0 (better team no problem)
2) grab the flag 2nd time and take it to the gen room
3) spam the entrance with 4-5 heavies not even coordinated attack can lodge that out

What the hell is wrong with you? In that tight of quarters, it doesn't matter how long you can fly. If you get near a wall or ceiling, you are going to get instagibbed with fusors, if you somehow (highly doubtful) get in through the mortar and fractal spam.

_________________
"Remember those, whom in memory are immortal..." ~ The Oath, Brothers of the Oath

PM if interested.

Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:42 pm

mifly

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:24 am
Posts: 913

Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it

Haar-like wrote:

VGN

1) cap for 1-0 (better team no problem)
2) grab the flag 2nd time and take it to the gen room
3) spam the entrance with 4-5 heavies not even coordinated attack can lodge that out

I even played a game where both teams locked the enemy flag in gen room like that.

To make gameplay more open, the entrance could be modified to allow to ski inside gen room, without losing speed.

Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:28 pm

FleurDeLis

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 659

Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it

DansonDelta-40 wrote:

3.) I've been a raider and never faced five, but i've faced four and won. They dont have the jets to stay afloat, and eventually fall to the ground. easy pickins.

Proper raindance gen entrance spam involves multiple JUGs with the Mirv and timing the spam such that there's no space for you to sneak in, you want in, you eat MIRV damage. If anyone is gonna lack jets to stay afloat, it'd be you since you'd lose your energy bar shielding the mirv blast to survive. "I played against bads and won" is not an argument for retaining the ease of turtling Raindance's gen room.

Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:39 pm

illerFFN

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:52 pm
Posts: 1174

Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it

mifly wrote:

VGNTo make gameplay more open, the entrance could be modified to allow to ski inside gen room, without losing speed.

This.
one entrance is only okay if you don't come to a deadstop trying to get through it.

Last edited by illerFFN on Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:40 pm

FreaK367

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:53 pm
Posts: 587
Location: England
Steam Gamer Name: FreaK

Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it

Turtling is pathetic and slows the game down. All bases / Generator rooms need atleast 2 entrances, unless the single entrance is very big and open. The Raindance Generator rooms are horrible at the moment, single entrance, very compact.

Makes it extremely easy to defend alone, a single Juggernaut can defend it with mindless spam, because the only way to get in is through a small gap into a small rectangle room, two choke points, even just outside the generator room is a choke point, with small walls to splash from and bounce spam off, with a base turret right in your face. And the inside, which is a problem with many generator rooms we have, is just too small.

I think the entrance needs to be bigger, and the generator room itself should be expanded underground in all directions. And even better if another entrance was introduced, could be a path from the bottom of the flagstand tower, or just a man-made opening in the ground nearby.

Turtling should not be a valid tactic, nor should a single person be able to prevent all access into the generator room with spam.

_________________

Desired:
Bind VGS commands to keys.
Full XP Refund for free/gold. (cheap)
Large Automatic Nerfs
Decent Plasma Gun Nerf
Large Jackal Nerf

Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:55 pm

noudesu

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:12 pm
Posts: 22

Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it

Haar-like wrote:

VGN

1) cap for 1-0 (better team no problem)
2) grab the flag 2nd time and take it to the gen room
3) spam the entrance with 4-5 heavies not even coordinated attack can lodge that out

If your team has that level of coordination, it would probably win anyway. All you need anyway is 4-5 brutes to bring in the disco balls and that flag carrier will quickly die. I don't see why teamwork is considered overpowered when the simple counter is to employ teamwork yourself.

Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:11 pm

ebonyknife

Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 6:17 am
Posts: 519

Re: The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it

if your even 1 point ahead, raindance turtling is virtually uncounterable in full pubs.

no amount of coordination is going to get through 5-6 juggs (and the occasional frac-***) spamming the entrance (god help you if the entire team is doing it), no one lasts long enough, and there isnt even an ubercharge mechanic or something in this game to break the useless stalemate.

Quote:

If your team has that level of coordination, it would probably win anyway.

It doesn't require any realistic coordination though. All it requires is the flag carrier to run in, and then everyone holds down M1 at the entrance, you don't even have to like, move your mouse. Oh and occasionally you have to refill at the inv station.

Quote:

All you need anyway is 4-5 brutes to bring in the disco balls and that flag carrier will quickly die. I don't see why teamwork is considered overpowered when the simple counter is to employ teamwork yourself.

Enough juggs and the brutes won't even get far enough to throw the fractals anywhere useful. Remember mortars have huge splash damage, having more people charge in won't do anything when you just get AoE'd.

The flag carrier (and the defenders for that matter) can easily hide up in that little balcony thing and become pretty much immune to the fractals you throw in.

Quote:

As with defending the gen and flag carrier, a steamrolled team can start catching up. i've seen this happen many times, and it's refreshing to be able to ward of a steamrolling team.

Thats stupid.

If you turtle in a losing situation, the enemy turtles, the flags stay put, then the enemy wins by default when the time limit runs out.

_________________
Autos are fine, stop bitchin

Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:52 pm

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The Raindance one entrance problem, and why I defend it