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[Idea/Balance] Armour Penetration stat/rating on guns?
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DibbzTheLoner Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am Posts: 1616 Location: Australia Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? w1mark wrote: I feel like sometime in the future hirez is going to actually give some customization to the "armor" category I had been thinking the same thing, could be a long while before that is implemented though... Just hope it's not just some kind of cosmetic thing, haha NKuga wrote: If implemented at all, I would rather have the varying damages calculated in a simple manner. All armor types take full AoE damage, and then Light/Med/Heavy will take 100%/X%/Y% from bullet-type weapons. No need to make things overly complicated, yes? Mm, I kind of agree; I think I might need to simplify my idea slightly. Honestly the idea itself is reasonably simple, though my current explanation might make it seem otherwise. I'll probably rewrite it later tonight after my university lab is done. VoltCruelerz wrote: I'd be comfortable trying something like this. It might fall on it's face, but I'd like to give it a test. It seems perfectly reasonable. Thanks (I think ) Any feedback as to why it might "fall on it's face"? Happy to modify my idea given good reasoning. _________________ This signature is green. I like the colour green. Wait, why are you still reading? It should be obvious that this signature is pointless and just here to be green. Stop reading already! You're procrastinating too much!
Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:33 am

Varnas Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:25 am Posts: 772 Location: Lithuania	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? I like it, good idea
Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:41 am

naqel Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:58 am Posts: 344	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? IMO a new perk would do the trick. Tribal Honor(or something like that): Base: 30% less damage from all automatic except Chainguns. Up1: Resistance applies to all bullet weapons except Chainguns. Up2: Resistance additionally applies to Chainguns(finally). Up3: Resistance applies EVERYTHING that's not a Spinfusor. _________________ patchnotes wrote: Voicepacks are now available to purchase.
Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:25 am

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4865 Location: NA East	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? Word. In either event, I support the idea. Heavies are not intimidating if you have an auto. That needs fixin'. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:03 am

VoltCruelerz Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:50 pm Posts: 721	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? DibbzTheLoner wrote: Any feedback as to why it might "fall on it's face"? Happy to modify my idea given good reasoning. That was more offhanded than anything. No particular reason, it's just that whenever new components are added on top of an existing balance structure, you always have the possibility of something going wrong or something interacting strangely with the new system. Overall, it should be okay given that heavies are mostly indoors with the exception of HoF's and juggies bombing the base. The only thing I could imagine would be that it might make either of those too durable, but I wouldn't expect it. Heavies are still heavy, so this won't impact explosive weapons and really just means you can't melt face as easily with a bullet weapon against a larger class unless you need to be able to with a given class. Of course, that would inadvertantly buff medium capping given that most chasers are probably going to elect to use the pathfinder and it's LAR to chase. I'd have to wait to see exactly what has to happen first with how the gameplay changes as a result of this though. Actually.. Hmm... This really could lead to more heavy capping and Infiltrator chasing because the SN7 would retain it's damage against them... I've seen heavies using grav bikes a lot recently to get up to high speed for grabs (particularly on Raindance), so this would as a result make them more difficult to bring down, which would likely result in greater nitron use and that would mean more nitron complaining, etc... _________________ Last edited by VoltCruelerz on Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:26 am

Rimoha Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:07 am Posts: 291 Location: near Venice	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? In my opinion there is already something like this and it's represented by the larger amount of health each class have compared to the light armor. _________________ Please support the cause for better CTF PUB games! IGN: h4ppyj3d1 \| EU servers \| I'll gladly switch nickname with something better if it'll be possible but, I can't stand spending gold for something like this.
Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:27 am

VoltCruelerz Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:50 pm Posts: 721	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? Rimoha wrote: In my opinion there is already something like this and it's represented by the larger amount of health each class have compared to the light armor. That impacts explosives and bullets. Heavies are already very good indoors but get melted pretty easily by autos. This attempts to fix the auto issue without making them OP inside. _________________
Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:28 am

DibbzTheLoner Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am Posts: 1616 Location: Australia Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? VoltCruelerz wrote: Actually.. Hmm... This really could lead to more heavy capping More heavily capping? VGTA Hadn't thought of this, but that'd be sweet. Properly executed Heavy-capping is something great to behold and can be difficult to pull off. Although grabbing the flag may be more easy as a heavy than as a light (since you can go toe-to-toe with the HoF and forcefully take the flag from him) getting back to base can be tricky, since your inertia reduces your ability to outrun chasers, and your extremely low energy regen means your skiing needs to be pretty much perfect since you'll be running on empty the whole way back, whereas a PTH could just fly half the way home without touching the ground if the terrain was difficult. VoltCruelerz wrote: Rimoha wrote: In my opinion there is already something like this and it's represented by the larger amount of health each class have compared to the light armor. That impacts explosives and bullets. Heavies are already very good indoors but get melted pretty easily by autos. This attempts to fix the auto issue without making them OP inside. Exactly. Larger health is basically equivalent to making you more resistant to all forms of damage, however since heavies are so much more susceptible to automatic fire than other forms of damage that's where the imbalance lies. _________________ This signature is green. I like the colour green. Wait, why are you still reading? It should be obvious that this signature is pointless and just here to be green. Stop reading already! You're procrastinating too much! Last edited by DibbzTheLoner on Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:42 am

-AEnubis- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am Posts: 4865 Location: NA East	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? Rimoha wrote: In my opinion there is already something like this and it's represented by the larger amount of health each class have compared to the light armor. Which would be completely relevant provided larger armors weren't also slower, and larger targets. Weaknesses more exemplified by autos, who's natural DPS is greater than most of their disc and grenade class counter parts. A change like this in conjunction with a 5%-8% DPS nerf to most of the autos, would put them right where they need to be. _________________ Physics \| CTF Scoring \| Team Selection
Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:45 am

Rimoha Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:07 am Posts: 291 Location: near Venice	Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories? In this case the solution is just a bait because the problem lies with automatic weapons mechanics. _________________ Please support the cause for better CTF PUB games! IGN: h4ppyj3d1 \| EU servers \| I'll gladly switch nickname with something better if it'll be possible but, I can't stand spending gold for something like this.
Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:54 am

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[Idea/Balance] Armour Penetration stat/rating on guns?

Author

Message

DibbzTheLoner

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am
Posts: 1616
Location: Australia
Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

w1mark wrote:

I feel like sometime in the future hirez is going to actually give some customization to the "armor" category

I had been thinking the same thing, could be a long while before that is implemented though...
Just hope it's not just some kind of cosmetic thing, haha

NKuga wrote:

If implemented at all, I would rather have the varying damages calculated in a simple manner. All armor types take full AoE damage, and then Light/Med/Heavy will take 100%/X%/Y% from bullet-type weapons. No need to make things overly complicated, yes?

Mm, I kind of agree; I think I might need to simplify my idea slightly.

Honestly the idea itself is reasonably simple, though my current explanation might make it seem otherwise.

I'll probably rewrite it later tonight after my university lab is done.

VoltCruelerz wrote:

I'd be comfortable trying something like this. It might fall on it's face, but I'd like to give it a test. It seems perfectly reasonable.

Thanks

(I think

)

Any feedback as to why it might "fall on it's face"? Happy to modify my idea given good reasoning.

_________________
This signature is green. I like the colour green.
Wait, why are you still reading? It should be obvious that this signature is pointless and just here to be green.
Stop reading already! You're procrastinating too much!

Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:33 am

Varnas

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:25 am
Posts: 772
Location: Lithuania

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

I like it, good idea

Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:41 am

naqel

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:58 am
Posts: 344

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

IMO a new perk would do the trick.

Tribal Honor(or something like that):
Base: 30% less damage from all automatic except Chainguns.
Up1: Resistance applies to all bullet weapons except Chainguns.
Up2: Resistance additionally applies to Chainguns(finally).
Up3: Resistance applies EVERYTHING that's not a Spinfusor.

_________________

patchnotes wrote:

Voicepacks are now available to purchase.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:25 am

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 4865
Location: NA East

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

Word. In either event, I support the idea. Heavies are not intimidating if you have an auto. That needs fixin'.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:03 am

VoltCruelerz

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:50 pm
Posts: 721

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

DibbzTheLoner wrote:

Any feedback as to why it might "fall on it's face"? Happy to modify my idea given good reasoning.

That was more offhanded than anything.

No particular reason, it's just that whenever new components are added on top of an existing balance structure, you always have the possibility of something going wrong or something interacting strangely with the new system. Overall, it should be okay given that heavies are mostly indoors with the exception of HoF's and juggies bombing the base.

The only thing I could imagine would be that it might make either of those too durable, but I wouldn't expect it. Heavies are still heavy, so this won't impact explosive weapons and really just means you can't melt face as easily with a bullet weapon against a larger class unless you need to be able to with a given class.

Of course, that would inadvertantly buff medium capping given that most chasers are probably going to elect to use the pathfinder and it's LAR to chase. I'd have to wait to see exactly what has to happen first with how the gameplay changes as a result of this though.

Actually.. Hmm... This really could lead to more heavy capping and Infiltrator chasing because the SN7 would retain it's damage against them... I've seen heavies using grav bikes a lot recently to get up to high speed for grabs (particularly on Raindance), so this would as a result make them more difficult to bring down, which would likely result in greater nitron use and that would mean more nitron complaining, etc...

_________________

Last edited by VoltCruelerz on Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:26 am

Rimoha

Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:07 am
Posts: 291
Location: near Venice

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

In my opinion there is already something like this and it's represented by the larger amount of health each class have compared to the light armor.

_________________

Please support the cause for better CTF PUB games!
IGN: h4ppyj3d1 | EU servers |

I'll gladly switch nickname with something better if it'll be possible but, I can't stand spending gold for something like this.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:27 am

VoltCruelerz

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:50 pm
Posts: 721

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

Rimoha wrote:

In my opinion there is already something like this and it's represented by the larger amount of health each class have compared to the light armor.

That impacts explosives and bullets. Heavies are already very good indoors but get melted pretty easily by autos. This attempts to fix the auto issue without making them OP inside.

_________________

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:28 am

DibbzTheLoner

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am
Posts: 1616
Location: Australia
Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

VoltCruelerz wrote:

Actually.. Hmm... This really could lead to more heavy capping

More heavily capping?
VGTA :lol:

Hadn't thought of this, but that'd be sweet. Properly executed Heavy-capping is something great to behold and can be difficult to pull off.

Although grabbing the flag may be more easy as a heavy than as a light (since you can go toe-to-toe with the HoF and forcefully take the flag from him) getting back to base can be tricky, since your inertia reduces your ability to outrun chasers, and your extremely low energy regen means your skiing needs to be pretty much perfect since you'll be running on empty the whole way back, whereas a PTH could just fly half the way home without touching the ground if the terrain was difficult.

VoltCruelerz wrote:

Rimoha wrote:

In my opinion there is already something like this and it's represented by the larger amount of health each class have compared to the light armor.

That impacts explosives and bullets. Heavies are already very good indoors but get melted pretty easily by autos. This attempts to fix the auto issue without making them OP inside.

Exactly. Larger health is basically equivalent to making you more resistant to all forms of damage, however since heavies are so much more susceptible to automatic fire than other forms of damage that's where the imbalance lies.

Last edited by DibbzTheLoner on Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:42 am

-AEnubis-

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 4865
Location: NA East

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

Rimoha wrote:

In my opinion there is already something like this and it's represented by the larger amount of health each class have compared to the light armor.

Which would be completely relevant provided larger armors weren't also slower, and larger targets. Weaknesses more exemplified by autos, who's natural DPS is greater than most of their disc and grenade class counter parts.

A change like this in conjunction with a 5%-8% DPS nerf to most of the autos, would put them right where they need to be.

_________________

Physics | CTF Scoring | Team Selection

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:45 am

Rimoha

Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:07 am
Posts: 291
Location: near Venice

Re: [Idea/Balance] Weapon Penetration vs Armour Categories?

In this case the solution is just a bait because the problem lies with automatic weapons mechanics.

_________________

Please support the cause for better CTF PUB games!
IGN: h4ppyj3d1 | EU servers |

I'll gladly switch nickname with something better if it'll be possible but, I can't stand spending gold for something like this.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:54 am

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[Idea/Balance] Armour Penetration stat/rating on guns?