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The Mighty EMP Grenade
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Tamburlaine Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:13 am Posts: 1859	The Mighty EMP Grenade I am a small, petty man. And because I am a small, petty man I have small, petty concerns. Concerns like, "Why does the single-barreled machine gun fire faster than the multi-barrelled machine gun?" "Why does the light assault rifle do more damage per shot than the assault rifle?" "Why are most submachine guns better all-purpose weapons than the assault rifle?" "Why does the LAR - supposedly a chasing weapon - have slower projectile speeds than submachine guns (and the LMG)?" "Why do anti-personnel mines and turrets have anti-vehicle/asset upgrades?" "Who put the bomp in the bomp-shoo-bomp-shoo-bomp?" I mean, I know where the "shoo" came from... But one of these small, petty concerns sits atop the others like Yertle upon a stack of turtles. I speak of the EMP grenade. Why in all of holy horse-c* does the EMP grenade do so much f* damage? Jesus Christ. ... See, the raider is a really well-rounded class. The only thing they're really lacking is an on-impact explosive, which I assume is a very specific choice that Hi-Rez has made. He has a choice of primary weapons that launch small numbers of delayed-blast grenades for clearing and fighting indoors. He has an extremely powerful SMG for fighting outdoors. He has two very useful packs. And since both of his primaries are grenade launchers, his belt items don't need to be damage dealers. Instead, they focus more on "disruption". Whiteouts white-out and EMPs drain energy. Except EMPs don't drain energy. EMPs just f* kill you. If they fail in that task, then they drain your energy. An EMP grenade does 1100 damage. For comparison's sake, the default doombringer grenade - the "frag grenade", a simple title that clearly indicates that is meant for nothing more than killing bitches - does 800 damage. Da f? "Slow down," says a hypothetical detractor, "You incredibly large-penised man, are you really complaining that EMP grenades are overpowered?" No, person I just invented, I am not. I am complaining that they are boring and redundant. There are many, many lethal grenades in this game. Stickies, AP, heavy AP, discus, T5, light sticky, frag XL... pretty much all grenade types (the aforementioned "frag" grenade being one of the few - and the most bizarre - exceptions) can at least kill an upgraded pathfinder. And if raiders want high-damage explosive weapons, that's why they are forced to use one of two automatic grenade launchers. I am not asking, my imaginary opponent, to have the EMP nerfed. I am asking to have it liberated. And/or nearly killed off due to over-use of pesticides. There are so many things that you could do with EMPs. How much damage does it do? 200? 100? 50 (whiteouts do 50)? None? How will you throw it? Like a nitron? Will it explode on contact? How big will the AOE be? Can it disable base turrets on contact? What about forcefields and tech turrets? Can it temporarily short those out? What about motion sensors? Maybe it could temporarily disable them or even destroy them without giving warning? What happens if you hit the generator? Would disable time be universal across all assets, or be based on something else (like type or HP)? What kind of upgrades could you have? Increased radius? Increased carry capacity? Decreased energy regen for those afflicted? Faster throw speed? Longer asset down-time? Some of those ideas and combinations of ideas are no doubt terrible, but that's not the point. The point is that the EMP grenade could see more use than your sister after she gets some tequila in her system, and it's a god d shame that a potentially interesting weapon is so boring in its implementation. Almost as big a shame as your sister is on the family. So. Hi-Rez. Bring this turtle tower down. Look at that smug son of a b**. Addendum the First: I realize that I simultaneously commented on the very specific lack of an on-impact explosive for the raider and suggested turning the EMP grenade into an on-impact explosive (and leaving the door open for giving the white-out a similar property). Given that Hi-Rez has specifically nerfed raider capping via grenades in the past, I assume that they would either weaken/remove EMP protection from egocentric and maybe replace it with something else, or simply give the EMP grenades extremely poor impulse to compensate for their increased ease of use for grenade jumping. Addendum the Second: Okay, so now he does have an on-impact explosive in the plasma gun. But it has very low impulse, so my point still kinda stands. _________________ oh god where does this link go how did it get here I am not good with computer Last edited by Tamburlaine on Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:39 pm

ArxBuster Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:07 pm Posts: 936	Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade
Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:42 pm

Elysiume Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:33 pm Posts: 1058	Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade That post is way too verbose, but I agree with the message. Tacking EMP onto heavy damage is lazy design. There are much cooler things it could do. Make it act like the Proximity Grenades (but get thrown like 3x faster) so you can knock people out of the sky with it, for example. _________________ 100% inheritance is something the game needs. Jetpacks need to behave more like jetpacks, at all speeds.
Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:46 pm

DibbzTheLoner Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am Posts: 1616 Location: Australia Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz	Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade +1 Your style of writing makes the masses of text readable and your point makes sense. EMP Grenades really don't act at all like their name suggests they should. _________________ This signature is green. I like the colour green. Wait, why are you still reading? It should be obvious that this signature is pointless and just here to be green. Stop reading already! You're procrastinating too much!
Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:47 pm

Jeradox Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:52 pm Posts: 1455	Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade +1 White out grenade should throw like nitron otherwise the emp grenade does the damage it does BEACUSE the raider is designed to be an indoor killer and doesn't have an on target explode weapon. Also, the tribal armor acording to lore defends your life with energy shields (beyond the shield pack) and the EMP grenade does massive damage to those shields. So it take a lot of skill and good timing to hit anything with all their weapons. Except maybe the NJ4, of which I wish there was an alternative for. I'm not a big SMG fan.
Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:49 pm

Tamburlaine Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:13 am Posts: 1859	Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade Jeradox wrote: otherwise the emp grenade does the damage it does BEACUSE the raider is designed to be an indoor killer and doesn't have an on target explode weapon. I'm sure doombringers would be happy to give raiders their frag grenades. I'm not harping on that point because I mostly play doombringer; I haven't used those grenades things in ages, and even if they did more damage, they have no synergy with the chaingun. It's just... dayumn. Did, like, a bunch of classes run in to each-other and drop all their grenades and some of them accidentally picked up the wrong stats or something? Even if you can make the argument that the raider needs an 1100 damage grenade - I ain't convinced, but I could be - the EMP ain't it. _________________ oh god where does this link go how did it get here I am not good with computer Last edited by Tamburlaine on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:03 pm

WitchDoctorVega Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:15 am Posts: 2482 Location: On the coast, NH Steam Gamer Name: ..WitchDoctor..	Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade i think it should do very heavy damage to assets and deployables, while just draining energy from players and doing about 400 damage. _________________ CYBRIDS 4 LYF! Metagens 4 ever!
Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:04 pm

miqueloz Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:55 pm Posts: 267	Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade EMP grenades are super easy to dodge because they glow blue. Normal grenades are often almost invisible unless you're looking for them.
Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:13 pm

Deteno Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:21 pm Posts: 136	Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade Very interesting post and I must say I agree with you. Personally I go for the whiteout because I like utility value more than a redundant grenade option. In real life EMPs actually have ridiculously high mortality rates even though they don't directly hurt people. The problem is actually caused by the fact that it shuts down the responses to emergencies and the destruction of ANYTHING with a circuit in it. That includes motor vehicles, computers, life support, and so on. Sudden car crashes all over the place, fires spring up, and no police or ambulances or fire fighters can respond to any of it. Though not directly related to game stats, I just thought you'd find it interesting. :3
Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:23 pm

anakinberrybread Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:36 am Posts: 184	Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade +1 I'd like to see the Whiteout and EMP both explode on contact too, or at least have a much shorter fuse. Raider has enough regular grenades.
Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:35 pm

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The Mighty EMP Grenade

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Tamburlaine

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:13 am
Posts: 1859

The Mighty EMP Grenade

I am a small, petty man.

And because I am a small, petty man I have small, petty concerns.

Concerns like, "Why does the single-barreled machine gun fire faster than the multi-barrelled machine gun?" "Why does the light assault rifle do more damage per shot than the assault rifle?" "Why are most submachine guns better all-purpose weapons than the assault rifle?" "Why does the LAR - supposedly a chasing weapon - have slower projectile speeds than submachine guns (and the LMG)?" "Why do anti-personnel mines and turrets have anti-vehicle/asset upgrades?" "Who put the bomp in the bomp-shoo-bomp-shoo-bomp?"

I mean, I know where the "shoo" came from...

But one of these small, petty concerns sits atop the others like Yertle upon a stack of turtles. I speak of the EMP grenade.

Why in all of holy horse-c*** does the EMP grenade do so much f*** damage? Jesus Christ.

...

See, the raider is a really well-rounded class. The only thing they're really lacking is an on-impact explosive, which I assume is a very specific choice that Hi-Rez has made. He has a choice of primary weapons that launch small numbers of delayed-blast grenades for clearing and fighting indoors. He has an extremely powerful SMG for fighting outdoors. He has two very useful packs. And since both of his primaries are grenade launchers, his belt items don't need to be damage dealers. Instead, they focus more on "disruption". Whiteouts white-out and EMPs drain energy.

Except EMPs don't drain energy. EMPs just f*** kill you. If they fail in that task, then they drain your energy. An EMP grenade does 1100 damage. For comparison's sake, the default doombringer grenade - the "frag grenade", a simple title that clearly indicates that is meant for nothing more than killing bitches - does 800 damage.

Da f***?

"Slow down," says a hypothetical detractor, "You incredibly large-penised man, are you really complaining that EMP grenades are overpowered?"

No, person I just invented, I am not. I am complaining that they are boring and redundant. There are many, many lethal grenades in this game. Stickies, AP, heavy AP, discus, T5, light sticky, frag XL... pretty much all grenade types (the aforementioned "frag" grenade being one of the few - and the most bizarre - exceptions) can at least kill an upgraded pathfinder. And if raiders want high-damage explosive weapons, that's why they are forced to use one of two automatic grenade launchers.

I am not asking, my imaginary opponent, to have the EMP nerfed. I am asking to have it liberated.

And/or nearly killed off due to over-use of pesticides.

There are so many things that you could do with EMPs.

How much damage does it do? 200? 100? 50 (whiteouts do 50)? None? How will you throw it? Like a nitron? Will it explode on contact? How big will the AOE be? Can it disable base turrets on contact? What about forcefields and tech turrets? Can it temporarily short those out? What about motion sensors? Maybe it could temporarily disable them or even destroy them without giving warning? What happens if you hit the generator? Would disable time be universal across all assets, or be based on something else (like type or HP)? What kind of upgrades could you have? Increased radius? Increased carry capacity? Decreased energy regen for those afflicted? Faster throw speed? Longer asset down-time?

Some of those ideas and combinations of ideas are no doubt terrible, but that's not the point. The point is that the EMP grenade could see more use than your sister after she gets some tequila in her system, and it's a god d*** shame that a potentially interesting weapon is so boring in its implementation. Almost as big a shame as your sister is on the family.

So. Hi-Rez. Bring this turtle tower down.

Look at that smug son of a b****.

Addendum the First: I realize that I simultaneously commented on the very specific lack of an on-impact explosive for the raider and suggested turning the EMP grenade into an on-impact explosive (and leaving the door open for giving the white-out a similar property). Given that Hi-Rez has specifically nerfed raider capping via grenades in the past, I assume that they would either weaken/remove EMP protection from egocentric and maybe replace it with something else, or simply give the EMP grenades extremely poor impulse to compensate for their increased ease of use for grenade jumping.

Addendum the Second: Okay, so now he does have an on-impact explosive in the plasma gun. But it has very low impulse, so my point still kinda stands.

_________________
oh god where does this link go how did it get here I am not good with computer

Last edited by Tamburlaine on Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:39 pm

ArxBuster

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:07 pm
Posts: 936

Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade

Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:42 pm

Elysiume

Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 1058

Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade

That post is way too verbose, but I agree with the message. Tacking EMP onto heavy damage is lazy design. There are much cooler things it could do. Make it act like the Proximity Grenades (but get thrown like 3x faster) so you can knock people out of the sky with it, for example.

_________________
100% inheritance is something the game needs.
Jetpacks need to behave more like jetpacks, at all speeds.

Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:46 pm

DibbzTheLoner

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am
Posts: 1616
Location: Australia
Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz

Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade

+1

Your style of writing makes the masses of text readable and your point makes sense. EMP Grenades really don't act at all like their name suggests they should.

_________________
This signature is green. I like the colour green.
Wait, why are you still reading? It should be obvious that this signature is pointless and just here to be green.
Stop reading already! You're procrastinating too much!

Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:47 pm

Jeradox

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:52 pm
Posts: 1455

Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade

+1 White out grenade should throw like nitron

otherwise the emp grenade does the damage it does BEACUSE the raider is designed to be an indoor killer and doesn't have an on target explode weapon. Also, the tribal armor acording to lore defends your life with energy shields (beyond the shield pack) and the EMP grenade does massive damage to those shields. So it take a lot of skill and good timing to hit anything with all their weapons. Except maybe the NJ4, of which I wish there was an alternative for. I'm not a big SMG fan.

Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:49 pm

Tamburlaine

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:13 am
Posts: 1859

Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade

Jeradox wrote:

otherwise the emp grenade does the damage it does BEACUSE the raider is designed to be an indoor killer and doesn't have an on target explode weapon.

I'm sure doombringers would be happy to give raiders their frag grenades.

I'm not harping on that point because I mostly play doombringer; I haven't used those grenades things in ages, and even if they did more damage, they have no synergy with the chaingun. It's just... dayumn. Did, like, a bunch of classes run in to each-other and drop all their grenades and some of them accidentally picked up the wrong stats or something?

Even if you can make the argument that the raider needs an 1100 damage grenade - I ain't convinced, but I could be - the EMP ain't it.

_________________
oh god where does this link go how did it get here I am not good with computer

Last edited by Tamburlaine on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:03 pm

WitchDoctorVega

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:15 am
Posts: 2482
Location: On the coast, NH
Steam Gamer Name: ..WitchDoctor..

Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade

i think it should do very heavy damage to assets and deployables, while just draining energy from players and doing about 400 damage.

_________________
CYBRIDS 4 LYF! Metagens 4 ever!

Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:04 pm

miqueloz

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:55 pm
Posts: 267

Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade

EMP grenades are super easy to dodge because they glow blue. Normal grenades are often almost invisible unless you're looking for them.

Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:13 pm

Deteno

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:21 pm
Posts: 136

Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade

Very interesting post and I must say I agree with you. Personally I go for the whiteout because I like utility value more than a redundant grenade option. In real life EMPs actually have ridiculously high mortality rates even though they don't directly hurt people. The problem is actually caused by the fact that it shuts down the responses to emergencies and the destruction of ANYTHING with a circuit in it. That includes motor vehicles, computers, life support, and so on. Sudden car crashes all over the place, fires spring up, and no police or ambulances or fire fighters can respond to any of it. Though not directly related to game stats, I just thought you'd find it interesting. :3

Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:23 pm

anakinberrybread

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:36 am
Posts: 184

Re: The Mighty EMP Grenade

+1

I'd like to see the Whiteout and EMP both explode on contact too, or at least have a much shorter fuse.

Raider has enough regular grenades.

Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:35 pm

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The Mighty EMP Grenade