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ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment?
Author	Message
Dormivi Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:30 pm Posts: 108	Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment? Nova Gas Grenade (needs different name, suggestions welcome) - Detonates on impact - Deals slight explosive damage on det. Something around 100 for a really close/direct impact - On det, the grenade immediately releases a large cloud of caustic gas that expands to around 5 meters. Outside of 5m it dissipates so there is no effect. - The gas from the grenade causes 50~100 damage for every .2 seconds spent in the cloud depending on how close to the center the unit its. The effect from the gas also blurs the vision of any affected units. Blur stays for 1 second after exiting cloud. - The cloud does 100 minimum damage if an enemy moves through it at high speed (not in the cloud long enough for the AoE tick to take effect) - The cloud hangs about for 10~15 seconds - Useful only in enclosed areas since it’s easy to escape the cloud on the open field using jetpacks. - Damage only to personnel, since it has no explosive power to speak of I proposed this grenade to give a more tactical form of area denial. The gas will not kill enemies effectively, just weaken them and make them easier to dispatch if they choose to run through the cloud. _________________ T:A- Dormivi -AEnubis- wrote: It's kinda funny how you can gauge skill level from post content.
Mon May 07, 2012 11:15 am

Wogrim Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:58 pm Posts: 61	Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment? cameirus wrote: Brutes should be massively unkillable as their thing, but their sheild is sub par due to low energy regen and lack of mobility making sure they are easy targets. Nah Dooms should be the unkillable ones, while Brutes should be a top-tier dueling class since they don't really specialize in anything.
Mon May 07, 2012 5:08 pm

Alpherior Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:01 pm Posts: 266 Location: Ontario, Canada	Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment? Wogrim wrote: cameirus wrote: Brutes should be massively unkillable as their thing, but their sheild is sub par due to low energy regen and lack of mobility making sure they are easy targets. Nah Dooms should be the unkillable ones, while Brutes should be a top-tier dueling class since they don't really specialize in anything. Doombringer needs like, +100-300 HP, and Brute needs about +10-40 energy and/or +10%-50% energy recharge rate. _________________ Main Class: Brute (Devestator Spinfusor/Plasma Cannon/Extended Fractal/Safety Third/Potential Energy/Survival Pack)
Mon May 07, 2012 5:35 pm

asbobaslop Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:49 pm Posts: 7	Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment? I love the Brute. I have a hard time taking people down with his shotgun, but I think that's just me. lol
Tue May 08, 2012 1:04 am

Dormivi Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:30 pm Posts: 108	Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment? asbobaslop wrote: I love the Brute. I have a hard time taking people down with his shotgun, but I think that's just me. lol That's because the auto-shotty only registers a hit if you shoot where your ping says the enemy will be, not where they are or where they are moving to. It's impossible to hit unless you're on a straight line or in ridiculously close quarters. _________________ T:A- Dormivi -AEnubis- wrote: It's kinda funny how you can gauge skill level from post content.
Tue May 08, 2012 8:29 am

Varnas Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:25 am Posts: 772 Location: Lithuania	Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment? 2kwik4u wrote: Nova Colt does 180 dmg? WTF? I was thinking about unlocking that gun because the Sentinel's Nova Colt does 350 dmg if I am correct? I thought it would be the same... not HALF damage! The reason Nova colt is weak to oblivion and beyond, is because it's hitscan, which well, for me makes it even harder to aim,
Tue May 15, 2012 8:04 am

DibbzTheLoner Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am Posts: 1616 Location: Australia Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz	Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment? Varnas wrote: 2kwik4u wrote: Nova Colt does 180 dmg? WTF? I was thinking about unlocking that gun because the Sentinel's Nova Colt does 350 dmg if I am correct? I thought it would be the same... not HALF damage! The reason Nova colt is weak to oblivion and beyond, is because it's hitscan, which well, for me makes it even harder to aim, I know what you mean. The damage (190 dmg on a 6-shot Nova Colt vs 170 dmg on a 16-shot SN7 Silenced Pistol), damage drop-off (only the Eagle/Sparrow and shotguns have worse drop-off range and severity), max range (the bullet doesn't even travel far enough to mesaure its accuracy in this test) and hitbox size (smallest in the game along with all the other hitscans, whereas automatics and the SN7 have hitboxes as large or larger than spinfusor discs) are gimped to hell BECAUSE it is hitscan, yet I find hitscan more difficult to use than projectile-bullets, making all the nerfs to its stats even worse. Magazine size, max ammo, damage, drop-off, DPS, range, accuracy - every stat among the worst in the game with no actual upsides unless you've developed the awkward tense aimbot-like accuracy required to make the hitscan worth anything. _________________ This signature is green. I like the colour green. Wait, why are you still reading? It should be obvious that this signature is pointless and just here to be green. Stop reading already! You're procrastinating too much!
Tue May 15, 2012 8:25 am

C1trom Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:48 am Posts: 355	Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment? Varnas wrote: 2kwik4u wrote: Nova Colt does 180 dmg? WTF? I was thinking about unlocking that gun because the Sentinel's Nova Colt does 350 dmg if I am correct? I thought it would be the same... not HALF damage! The reason Nova colt is weak to oblivion and beyond, is because it's hitscan, which well, for me makes it even harder to aim, Wow i feel like I'm playing in an alternate dimension or something. For me the colt is extremely powerful, and it singlehandedly shot the brute into my top 3 favourite classes after i unlocked that thing. Unlike the other secondary hitscan weapons in the game, it has pinpoint accuracy (shotties and the other pistols have spread) and even with the damage falloff it deals dangerous damage, and much more reliable at range than projectile weapons... if you can aim. I can literally snipe cappers out of the sky with that thing and running away from a good aimer armed with the colt is impossible. Now that the heavy spinfusor finally has the respectable damage it deserved, I can land just one shot with that monsterfusor and then quickly finish off any class with the colt regardless if they are on the ground or in the air. (good raiders are superior outdoors though on even ground) One of the biggest weakness of the default loadout brute is that if people manage to get out of the lethal range of the spinfusor or just spend enough time in the air, the brute is just a defenseless target dummy. Because the autoshotty has a pathetic range and essentially fills the same niche as the spinfusor in a close range fight but with less damage, so its even redundant. (when I'm within shotgun range with an enemy, i can reliably land mid-airs and direct hits anyways with the fusor, making the shotty completely pointless) The colt completely turns this around and makes the brute a real menace, because it can deal damage consistently against enemies on the ground or in the air likewise, so more mobile classes cant just freely fly around the brute. Normally I'm against unlocks that are direct upgrades, but without the colt the brute is a joke class that is not a menace to anyone, but its a perfect complement for the spinfusor. And with the latest buffs the brute is finally a legit class, that is a powerful heavy duelist, and effective at flagclearing / base destruction too. I really hope that instead of nerfing the colt, hirez will just buff the shotty. Oh and potential energy is a must too for brute in my opinion, it increases the mobility radically and also survival chance against people armed with explosives. A heavy flying at you at 200kph equipped with a serious burst damage weapon and a long reach, makes people s*** bricks after a few encounters. Forget the shield pack imo. You are just a sitting duck with it and it doesn't absorb enough damage to make up for it. The extra mobility the energy pack gives, makes the brute a much more versatile class. _________________ R.I.P. Spinfusor
Tue May 15, 2012 2:12 pm

Nark51 Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:54 pm Posts: 855 Location: United Kingdom	Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment? I think something needs to be done to address the Auto Shotguns, they're of such short range that you may as well just use the Plasma (which actually probably outranges it too, and is more reliable). The range doesn't bother me much but the fact that there's no real reason to use them over Plasma, at least the Nova Colt fills a niche of Brute needing a slightly longer ranged weapon, as all of his primaries are unreliable at range, despite it being seemingly horribly inaccurate due to hitscan dicerolls or tiny hitscan hitboxes. A change I would like to see to the Automatic Shotguns is increasing the fire rate (by a significant amount). The fire rate is so slow that it may as well be click-to-fire semi-auto, is the pathetic attempt at it being "automatic" with a slow rate of fire why it's the least scary shotgun in the game? I fear Technicians using the Sawed-Off more than Brutes with The Hammer. An even more preferable change for Shotguns in general (for me) would be to make them projectile UT Flak Cannon clones (minus the grenade function), but I doubt this will happen. As for the Nova Colt, it would greatly benefit from being a high speed projectile weapon like the SN7, and increasing its damage. The only reason the Nova Colt is limited to sub-200 damage is because it's hitscan and has a significant range. _________________ Important things: Possible solutions to D-stacking and ways to incentivize O Nark, certified #1 Chaser & #1 Scrambler Capper in Europe. Also #1 in Rabbit.
Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:02 am

cameirus Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:32 am Posts: 99	Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment? Wogrim wrote: cameirus wrote: Brutes should be massively unkillable as their thing, but their sheild is sub par due to low energy regen and lack of mobility making sure they are easy targets. Nah Dooms should be the unkillable ones, while Brutes should be a top-tier dueling class since they don't really specialize in anything. um, thats what a soldier is. Brutes are difficult to classify really, should maybe have teh edge indoors and be slighly worse outside, so they act as either gen defenders or attackers. leaving soldiers as teh go to midfield duelers.
Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:02 pm

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ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment?

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Dormivi

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:30 pm
Posts: 108

Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment?

Nova Gas Grenade (needs different name, suggestions welcome)
- Detonates on impact
- Deals slight explosive damage on det. Something around 100 for a really close/direct impact
- On det, the grenade immediately releases a large cloud of caustic gas that expands to around 5 meters. Outside of 5m it dissipates so there is no effect.
- The gas from the grenade causes 50~100 damage for every .2 seconds spent in the cloud depending on how close to the center the unit its. The effect from the gas also blurs the vision of any affected units. Blur stays for 1 second after exiting cloud.
- The cloud does 100 minimum damage if an enemy moves through it at high speed (not in the cloud long enough for the AoE tick to take effect)
- The cloud hangs about for 10~15 seconds
- Useful only in enclosed areas since it’s easy to escape the cloud on the open field using jetpacks.
- Damage only to personnel, since it has no explosive power to speak of

I proposed this grenade to give a more tactical form of area denial. The gas will not kill enemies effectively, just weaken them and make them easier to dispatch if they choose to run through the cloud.

_________________
T:A- Dormivi

-AEnubis- wrote:

It's kinda funny how you can gauge skill level from post content.

Mon May 07, 2012 11:15 am

Wogrim

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:58 pm
Posts: 61

Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment?

cameirus wrote:

Brutes should be massively unkillable as their thing, but their sheild is sub par due to low energy regen and lack of mobility making sure they are easy targets.

Nah Dooms should be the unkillable ones, while Brutes should be a top-tier dueling class since they don't really specialize in anything.

Mon May 07, 2012 5:08 pm

Alpherior

Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:01 pm
Posts: 266
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment?

Wogrim wrote:

cameirus wrote:

Brutes should be massively unkillable as their thing, but their sheild is sub par due to low energy regen and lack of mobility making sure they are easy targets.

Nah Dooms should be the unkillable ones, while Brutes should be a top-tier dueling class since they don't really specialize in anything.

Doombringer needs like, +100-300 HP, and Brute needs about +10-40 energy and/or +10%-50% energy recharge rate.

_________________

Main Class: Brute
(Devestator Spinfusor/Plasma Cannon/Extended Fractal/Safety Third/Potential Energy/Survival Pack)

Mon May 07, 2012 5:35 pm

asbobaslop

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:49 pm
Posts: 7

Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment?

I love the Brute. I have a hard time taking people down with his shotgun, but I think that's just me. lol

Tue May 08, 2012 1:04 am

Dormivi

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:30 pm
Posts: 108

Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment?

asbobaslop wrote:

I love the Brute. I have a hard time taking people down with his shotgun, but I think that's just me. lol

That's because the auto-shotty only registers a hit if you shoot where your ping says the enemy will be, not where they are or where they are moving to. It's impossible to hit unless you're on a straight line or in ridiculously close quarters.

_________________
T:A- Dormivi

-AEnubis- wrote:

It's kinda funny how you can gauge skill level from post content.

Tue May 08, 2012 8:29 am

Varnas

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:25 am
Posts: 772
Location: Lithuania

Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment?

2kwik4u wrote:

Nova Colt does 180 dmg? WTF? I was thinking about unlocking that gun because the Sentinel's Nova Colt does 350 dmg if I am correct? I thought it would be the same... not HALF damage!

The reason Nova colt is weak to oblivion and beyond, is because it's hitscan, which well, for me makes it even harder to aim,

Tue May 15, 2012 8:04 am

DibbzTheLoner

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am
Posts: 1616
Location: Australia
Steam Gamer Name: Dibbz

Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment?

Varnas wrote:

2kwik4u wrote:

Nova Colt does 180 dmg? WTF? I was thinking about unlocking that gun because the Sentinel's Nova Colt does 350 dmg if I am correct? I thought it would be the same... not HALF damage!

The reason Nova colt is weak to oblivion and beyond, is because it's hitscan, which well, for me makes it even harder to aim,

I know what you mean.
The damage (190 dmg on a 6-shot Nova Colt vs 170 dmg on a 16-shot SN7 Silenced Pistol), damage drop-off (only the Eagle/Sparrow and shotguns have worse drop-off range and severity), max range (the bullet doesn't even travel far enough to mesaure its accuracy in this test) and hitbox size (smallest in the game along with all the other hitscans, whereas automatics and the SN7 have hitboxes as large or larger than spinfusor discs) are gimped to hell BECAUSE it is hitscan, yet I find hitscan more difficult to use than projectile-bullets, making all the nerfs to its stats even worse.

Magazine size, max ammo, damage, drop-off, DPS, range, accuracy - every stat among the worst in the game with no actual upsides unless you've developed the awkward tense aimbot-like accuracy required to make the hitscan worth anything.

_________________
This signature is green. I like the colour green.
Wait, why are you still reading? It should be obvious that this signature is pointless and just here to be green.
Stop reading already! You're procrastinating too much!

Tue May 15, 2012 8:25 am

C1trom

Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:48 am
Posts: 355

Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment?

Varnas wrote:

2kwik4u wrote:

Nova Colt does 180 dmg? WTF? I was thinking about unlocking that gun because the Sentinel's Nova Colt does 350 dmg if I am correct? I thought it would be the same... not HALF damage!

The reason Nova colt is weak to oblivion and beyond, is because it's hitscan, which well, for me makes it even harder to aim,

Wow i feel like I'm playing in an alternate dimension or something.

For me the colt is extremely powerful, and it singlehandedly shot the brute into my top 3 favourite classes after i unlocked that thing. Unlike the other secondary hitscan weapons in the game, it has pinpoint accuracy (shotties and the other pistols have spread) and even with the damage falloff it deals dangerous damage, and much more reliable at range than projectile weapons... if you can aim. I can literally snipe cappers out of the sky with that thing and running away from a good aimer armed with the colt is impossible.

Now that the heavy spinfusor finally has the respectable damage it deserved, I can land just one shot with that monsterfusor and then quickly finish off any class with the colt regardless if they are on the ground or in the air. (good raiders are superior outdoors though on even ground)

One of the biggest weakness of the default loadout brute is that if people manage to get out of the lethal range of the spinfusor or just spend enough time in the air, the brute is just a defenseless target dummy. Because the autoshotty has a pathetic range and essentially fills the same niche as the spinfusor in a close range fight but with less damage, so its even redundant. (when I'm within shotgun range with an enemy, i can reliably land mid-airs and direct hits anyways with the fusor, making the shotty completely pointless)
The colt completely turns this around and makes the brute a real menace, because it can deal damage consistently against enemies on the ground or in the air likewise, so more mobile classes cant just freely fly around the brute.

Normally I'm against unlocks that are direct upgrades, but without the colt the brute is a joke class that is not a menace to anyone, but its a perfect complement for the spinfusor. And with the latest buffs the brute is finally a legit class, that is a powerful heavy duelist, and effective at flagclearing / base destruction too.
I really hope that instead of nerfing the colt, hirez will just buff the shotty.

Oh and potential energy is a must too for brute in my opinion, it increases the mobility radically and also survival chance against people armed with explosives. A heavy flying at you at 200kph equipped with a serious burst damage weapon and a long reach, makes people s*** bricks after a few encounters.

Forget the shield pack imo. You are just a sitting duck with it and it doesn't absorb enough damage to make up for it. The extra mobility the energy pack gives, makes the brute a much more versatile class.

_________________
R.I.P. Spinfusor

Tue May 15, 2012 2:12 pm

Nark51

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:54 pm
Posts: 855
Location: United Kingdom

Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment?

I think something needs to be done to address the Auto Shotguns, they're of such short range that you may as well just use the Plasma (which actually probably outranges it too, and is more reliable). The range doesn't bother me much but the fact that there's no real reason to use them over Plasma, at least the Nova Colt fills a niche of Brute needing a slightly longer ranged weapon, as all of his primaries are unreliable at range, despite it being seemingly horribly inaccurate due to hitscan dicerolls or tiny hitscan hitboxes.

A change I would like to see to the Automatic Shotguns is increasing the fire rate (by a significant amount). The fire rate is so slow that it may as well be click-to-fire semi-auto, is the pathetic attempt at it being "automatic" with a slow rate of fire why it's the least scary shotgun in the game? I fear Technicians using the Sawed-Off more than Brutes with The Hammer.

An even more preferable change for Shotguns in general (for me) would be to make them projectile UT Flak Cannon clones (minus the grenade function), but I doubt this will happen.

As for the Nova Colt, it would greatly benefit from being a high speed projectile weapon like the SN7, and increasing its damage. The only reason the Nova Colt is limited to sub-200 damage is because it's hitscan and has a significant range.

_________________
Important things:
Possible solutions to D-stacking and ways to incentivize O

Nark, certified #1 Chaser & #1 Scrambler Capper in Europe. Also #1 in Rabbit.

Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:02 am

cameirus

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:32 am
Posts: 99

Re: ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment?

Wogrim wrote:

cameirus wrote:

Brutes should be massively unkillable as their thing, but their sheild is sub par due to low energy regen and lack of mobility making sure they are easy targets.

Nah Dooms should be the unkillable ones, while Brutes should be a top-tier dueling class since they don't really specialize in anything.

um, thats what a soldier is.

Brutes are difficult to classify really, should maybe have teh edge indoors and be slighly worse outside, so they act as either gen defenders or attackers.

leaving soldiers as teh go to midfield duelers.

Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:02 pm

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ALL of Brute Weapons In Need of Adjustment?