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Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!
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satarc Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:13 pm Posts: 100	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! 800mm wrote: Wobberjockey wrote: #4. THE GAME IS NOT PAY 2 WIN. And who decides this, you? You cling to this petty, obsolete definition of pay to win, you assume - declare, rather, that its absolute, and expect to be taken seriously? There may have been some good advice in your post (really, common sense), but this simply makes you come across as a poster not worth reading, a large slice of your other posts still litters the board as I type this. You need to stop spamming, you really do. lolz. ill tell you who decided if its pay2win or not. the dictionary m8. words have meaning. if i play a game and the best weapons are only available with my real money its pay2win. if i can buy the weapons in game without spending any money and they arnt flat out better (but just alternatives) its F2P. i havnt spent any money and i win therefore its F2P. simple. now if you get pwnd all the time cos you suck then maybe its better for your fragile ego to QQ pay2win all the time. ill bet your one of those players who continually spams the chat with P2W noob every time some one beats you down. well lift your game instead of getting bitter m8. and TBH m8 "but this simply makes you come across as a poster not worth reading" and "You need to stop spamming, you really do" is basically what your doing with continual P2W whine. pot calling kettle much. IIITTTSSSS NNNOOOTTTTT PPPP22222WWWWW!!!
Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:36 am

DuckBlitz Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:14 am Posts: 177	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! +1 It is counterproductive to the betterment of the game and our voice as the community being heard when the front page is constantly littered with redundant and often unconstructive threads that only serve to draw attention away from the kind of useful feedback we all want to get heard. Remember also that when you are replying to these kinds of threads, you are bumping them and thus giving them visibility. It's often better to just let them die than fuel an unconstructive discussion that will provoke more replies. Do that kind of discussing on the general board but please, let's remember that this board is only for us to help improve the game and anything that undermines that cause should be avoided.
Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:47 am

LordOpeth Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:01 pm Posts: 648	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! Wobber- Yet again you are wrong! I am a precious little flower. Good post dude.. \m/ _________________ T1 - MrBungle T2 - (ZOC) MrBungle Why does allot here expcept dieng in big KABOOM glory but dont give honnor to the silent laser thro your head in air HS your dead ? -uFr49
Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:30 am

Wobberjockey Beta Tester Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 am Posts: 8726 Location: In a handbasket, heading somewhere	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! 800mm wrote: Wobberjockey wrote: #4. THE GAME IS NOT PAY 2 WIN. And who decides this, you? You cling to this petty, obsolete definition of pay to win, you assume - declare, rather, that its absolute, and expect to be taken seriously? There may have been some good advice in your post (really, common sense), but this simply makes you come across as a poster not worth reading, a large slice of your other posts still litters the board as I type this. You need to stop spamming, you really do. i guess this is just my opinion then. and the folks at TV tropes just happen to share it Quote: This is primarily an advertising trope about a mismatch between PR and reality. If the commercials bandy about terms like “FREE,” “UNLIMITED” and “WITHOUT PAYING” while the ability to complete or be competitive within the game is walled off for those who don't dish dough (or even those who do!), you've got yourself an Allegedly Free Game. (If the game is promoted as unambiguously commercial in nature, all monetary elements are purely cosmetic, or they're minor enough that you could genuinely play the game for free and never miss them, then it doesn't belong here.) Sometimes you're restricted to a "free" zone and have to repeatedly buy access to the rest of the game piece by piece, sometimes you're incapable of gaining certain abilities or items without buying them with real world money, sometimes you can buy a copy or pay a subscription fee (and even then, additional purchases may be needed.) Any way that you cut this, you aren't going to get very far without reaching for your wallet. Some combination of Freemium, and Microtransactions will likely be involved in this. just because in your mind F2P = P2W doesn't mean it is. you still need to aim at the right angle, you still need to pull the trigger at the right time, and your shot will still do the same damage no matter if you payed for a weapon or ground it out. real examples of P2W just so you can compare to this game (which really isn't) Quote: Battlefield Heroes recently underwent this. It used to be you could buy clothing and other extras for real money, and buy the guns and essential using in-game currency. Then, EA (of course) jacked up the prices in in-game currency by 20 times, no exaggeration, and made it a lot easier to buy stuff using real money, making it effectively useless to use in-game currency. Then added new, better guns, available only with real money. Interestingly enough, this is the exact thing they promised wouldn't happen when they introduced the game. Quote: Champions Online has a "Free For All" setup, where anyone can play nearly all of the game's content for free. However, the free Silver accounts have severe restrictions placed on character customization (fewer costume choices, a handful of Archetypes, limited bag slots, and a limited selection of travel powers) and have to purchase access to the Adventure Packs (optional repayable mission content). Still, this is mostly an aversion of this trope as it is entirely feasible to level a character all the way up to end-game content without spending a penny on the game: nothing that is essential requires a purchase. All of the above restrictions can be bypassed by spending real money to unlock the restricted content; but there are two aspects of The game which are only available to the subscription-based Gold accounts: power customization (what color is my energy blast? does it come from my palm, fist, chest, or head? etc.) and Freeform characters (which are superior in every way to the Archetypes, both in terms of how much freedom you have in choosing powers and how many powers you can choose). Silver accounts are definitely second-class citizens in the game; though they are not outcasts. Quote: Evony advertises itself as "Free Forever", but the only reliable way to get special items is to buy them for real money. This includes the Michelangelo's Script, a requirement to upgrade a building to its highest level, for $5 per upgrade. It also includes medals, which you'll have to buy if you want to have more than two cities at once. They also have three separate "free gifts", the best of which requires the player to spend $100. The worst part is that the game coins are called "cents" even though each cent costs $0.10, to make things seem cheaper. (All figures in US dollars.) Quote: Runes of Magic: You will never be as good as the guy sitting next to you who buys the in-game currency without paying the same amount or more, or a ridiculous amount of time. Assuming you choose the time route, you need to farm 10 turn-ins of whatever Daily Quest you choose, turn those in, and get 100 tokens which are basically a free version of the diamonds, but with half the item selection at like 5-20 times the price they cost in diamonds. a Purified Fusion Stone, 6 of which are needed to make the best gear possible, costs a whopping 1100 tokens, vs. 55 diamonds when they're NOT on sale, as low as 25 dias (in a 5 pack) when they ARE. that's 11 days for one stone, 66 for one piece of gear. Furthermore, you have at least 16 items to stat, if you use a two handed weapon. 17 if you're a knight with a shield. 18 for scout/rogues, who stat both daggers and use their bow as their main weapon. 1056 days of farming for the minimal amount of puri stones for one set of gear. almost 2.9 YEARS. 1188 for the aforementioned scout/rogues. That's 3 and a quarter years of farming. Did i forget to mention you'll end up statting at least three or four full set's worth? All this is ignoring the equally sized set you'll need for your secondary class, if you choose to stat a set of gear for it, too. Let's not forget the Arcane Transmuter charges, which are 300 for ten of them on the tokens. 3 extra days per armor piece, 1-2 more months. Then there's tiering your weapons, required if you want to do any real damage ever. Also gear refinement on top of the statting and tiering. You're practically required to farm the local Money Spiders and slowly earn millions of gold to buy statted armor, the best of which runs AT LEAST 4 million per piece. /rant. so you're complaining about a game that's in beta that's asking you for ~1 day of play time (13 days at just 2 hours a day, so 26 hours. YMMV) to unlock a weapon. that weapon will allow you to shoot the exact same projectiles that someone who spent 7 bucks on it would shoot. you'll do the exact same damage with it, and you need to aim the exact same way. and guess what, if you are a better shot, you'll WIN more often than the guy who dropped real money... and you STILL think this is pay to win? my GOD man. back up and get some bloody perspective and ps. i don't spam. it's just a never ending battle to keep that special brand of willful ignorance out of the forums. if you see me posting a lot in your threads, there could be a correlation... now stop derailing my thread _________________ original art at http://tinyurl.com/shazbotsig The Tribes READ ME. Quite possibly the most important thread you'll never read
Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:10 pm

satarc Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:13 pm Posts: 100	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! not to mention BFP4f which is about as P2W as you can get.
Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:21 pm

800mm Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:41 am Posts: 105	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! Wobberjockey wrote: i guess this is just my opinion then. It is, and there is really nothing you can attach to this statement to change its nature. You don't think in T:A paying money grants you an advantage? Thats your opinion, its yours, nobody can take it from you, and you're not forced to change it. satarc wrote: not to mention BFP4f which is about as P2W as you can get. Bingo, "as p2w as you can get" suggests that there are "varying degrees" of p2w, money only direct upgrades being at the top (which is probably the case for BFP4f yeah?). You got it right, "p2w" is not binary, there are many paid advantages and varying dregrees of accessibility to them besides money, that defines "how p2w a game feels". When people look confused as I pump an MKD disc, followed by 4 blue ones in rapid succession, thats an advantage I have, its massive, how massive? 52k? XP for the discs, and some 30k? for the quickdraw perk. How the victim wants to overcome this advantage is up to them, money for the initial unlock and boosters to clear the xp? boosters all the way? no booster and no gold? its up to them, whatever they chose determines for how long do I curbstomp them. But the whole point of this system (as stated by todd harris in an interview), is that you stomp your victim with a weapon, so much that they will want to unlock it right after - ingame even. If thats not the basic premise of p2w to you, I don't know what is.
Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:40 pm

foobeer Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:48 pm Posts: 139	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! While I agree with most of your points and that they are meant to be helpful, the forum in general usually goes more like: 1. Use Search - we know this sucks, so please be prepared to wait 30 seconds to a minute between each search or while going to each page because you will get locked out. 2. Check post date - now that you have wasted your time on a poor search engine, if you decide to post a reply, we will all yell NECRO at you. OR 3. Post new thread- now we will yell at you and tell you that your thoughts do not deserve a new thread and that you need to stop whining and learn 2 play. WHICH brings us to the next and final point 4. You are not special, so just lurk - if you want to participate, please just reply with a "+1" to anything that is on the first two pages of the current threads. You are allowed to agree with the us, but not to add your own thoughts. This is not trying to go against the intention of your post, because nobody likes when the first couple of forum pages get cluttered with ill-informed rants or things that have been discussed numerous times. It's just that both new and veteran players should be encouraged to participate and discuss constructively, instead of being advised that they aren't special and don't deserve to be heard. I once read a wise post that stated "attitude is everything."
Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:25 pm

satarc Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:13 pm Posts: 100	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! 800mm wrote: Bingo, "as p2w as you can get" suggests that there are "varying degrees" of p2w, money only direct upgrades being at the top (which is probably the case for BFP4f yeah?). You got it right, "p2w" is not binary, there are many paid advantages and varying dregrees of accessibility to them besides money, that defines "how p2w a game feels". When people look confused as I pump an MKD disc, followed by 4 blue ones in rapid succession, thats an advantage I have, its massive, how massive? 52k? XP for the discs, and some 30k? for the quickdraw perk. How the victim wants to overcome this advantage is up to them, money for the initial unlock and boosters to clear the xp? boosters all the way? no booster and no gold? its up to them, whatever they chose determines for how long do I curbstomp them. But the whole point of this system (as stated by todd harris in an interview), is that you stomp your victim with a weapon, so much that they will want to unlock it right after - ingame even. If thats not the basic premise of p2w to you, I don't know what is. listen m8 i dont know how old you are or if your "special" but here's a tip (that by the way you post will be useful IRL) if you think something and the world disagrees with you then its an indication that you are wrong. you come over, through the things you write, as very arrogant and unable to see when you are wrong. BFP4F is impossible to play without giving them your money. so much so that most of the closed beta testers (me included) became appalled at the way the implemented the system and left in protest. because it went from F2P to P2W. originally it was the same as TA and you could play for free on an even field. then they changed the system and you stand no chance with the defaults. and can only get better items by paying. that might happen in TA but as it stands that is not the case. you can argue all day long that some weapons are better than others but you seem to be on your own (or at least in a small minority) with that one. and even if they are you dont need to pay money for them. jesus. this "When people look confused as I pump an MKD disc, followed by 4 blue ones in rapid succession, thats an advantage I have, its massive" is rubbish. you are using emotional language to try and prove your week point. no one weapon is better than the alternative defaults. and people dont look confused as you put it. those weapons are being spammed in all the rounds i play. no one is looking as you try to pwn them thinking ooohhh wow whats that thing. you have no advantage over anyone else. you may have in certain circumstances but then the other player with defaults will in another. im afraid P2W is binary, although you can have varying degrees of the P2W systems. do i have to pay to win. no. ok then its not pay to win. do i have to pay to win. yes. then its P2W. the only reason you are using blurred lines as an argument is because you are trying to argue an invalid point and have no facts. "How the victim wants to overcome this advantage is up to them, money for the initial unlock and boosters to clear the xp? boosters all the way? no booster and no gold? its up to them, whatever they chose determines for how long do I curbstomp them." you have said it in this statement. "they can over come with no booster and no gold". so therefore its not P2W. serioulsy i know your not gonna get it but at least if some of us point out your logical fallacies then other people reading might understand its not P2W. and finaly "If thats not the basic premise of p2w to you, I don't know what is" no clearly you do not.
Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:29 pm

C1trom Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:48 am Posts: 355	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! satarc wrote: 800mm wrote: Bingo, "as p2w as you can get" suggests that there are "varying degrees" of p2w, money only direct upgrades being at the top (which is probably the case for BFP4f yeah?). You got it right, "p2w" is not binary, there are many paid advantages and varying dregrees of accessibility to them besides money, that defines "how p2w a game feels". When people look confused as I pump an MKD disc, followed by 4 blue ones in rapid succession, thats an advantage I have, its massive, how massive? 52k? XP for the discs, and some 30k? for the quickdraw perk. How the victim wants to overcome this advantage is up to them, money for the initial unlock and boosters to clear the xp? boosters all the way? no booster and no gold? its up to them, whatever they chose determines for how long do I curbstomp them. But the whole point of this system (as stated by todd harris in an interview), is that you stomp your victim with a weapon, so much that they will want to unlock it right after - ingame even. If thats not the basic premise of p2w to you, I don't know what is. listen m8 i dont know how old you are or if your "special" but here's a tip (that by the way you post will be useful IRL) if you think something and the world disagrees with you then its an indication that you are wrong. you come over, through the things you write, as very arrogant and unable to see when you are wrong. BFP4F is impossible to play without giving them your money. so much so that most of the closed beta testers (me included) became appalled at the way the implemented the system and left in protest. because it went from F2P to P2W. originally it was the same as TA and you could play for free on an even field. then they changed the system and you stand no chance with the defaults. and can only get better items by paying. that might happen in TA but as it stands that is not the case. you can argue all day long that some weapons are better than others but you seem to be on your own (or at least in a small minority) with that one. and even if they are you dont need to pay money for them. jesus. this "When people look confused as I pump an MKD disc, followed by 4 blue ones in rapid succession, thats an advantage I have, its massive" is rubbish. you are using emotional language to try and prove your week point. no one weapon is better than the alternative defaults. and people dont look confused as you put it. those weapons are being spammed in all the rounds i play. no one is looking as you try to pwn them thinking ooohhh wow whats that thing. you have no advantage over anyone else. you may have in certain circumstances but then the other player with defaults will in another. im afraid P2W is binary, although you can have varying degrees of the P2W systems. do i have to pay to win. no. ok then its not pay to win. do i have to pay to win. yes. then its P2W. the only reason you are using blurred lines as an argument is because you are trying to argue an invalid point and have no facts. "How the victim wants to overcome this advantage is up to them, money for the initial unlock and boosters to clear the xp? boosters all the way? no booster and no gold? its up to them, whatever they chose determines for how long do I curbstomp them." you have said it in this statement. "they can over come with no booster and no gold". so therefore its not P2W. serioulsy i know your not gonna get it but at least if some of us point out your logical fallacies then other people reading might understand its not P2W. and finaly "If thats not the basic premise of p2w to you, I don't know what is" no clearly you do not. I could bet you anything you could find fanboys still on BFP4F who would still defend its P2W system with the same arguments you use here, and it is technically still possible to win if you don't pay anything. Given by your definition P2W would imply that the game would simply kick you if you happened to win, or you have to fight people armed to the teeth while you literally have nothing to fight back with, which I'm sure is not the case there. Just because you can get from point A to point B for free if you chew your way through a brick wall, that doesn't mean someone paying 10 bucks to use a door instead isn't at a significant advantage. This game definitely has one of the best F2P play systems out there, and I applaud Hi-Rez for that, but its definitely not flawless either. I'm not naming specific items because I don't want to derail the thread completely but there are a few unlockable weapons and items that could use some balancing and tweaking to avoid P2W accusations. And it should be fairly obvious what items are theese, for people who actually play the game and read theese forums. And btw I actually paid for this game and enjoying its advantages myself (although i mostly did it because i wanted to support the developers, not because i fancied a specific item), but I'd enjoy a level playing field and balanced classes and items even more. Because its simply crucial for a competitive FPS. _________________ R.I.P. Spinfusor
Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:00 pm

satarc Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:13 pm Posts: 100	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! C1trom wrote: I could bet you anything you could find fanboys still on BFP4F who would still defend its P2W system with the same arguments you use here, and it is technically still possible to win if you don't pay anything. Given by your definition P2W would imply that the game would simply kick you if you happened to win, or you have to fight people armed to the teeth while you literally have nothing to fight back with, which I'm sure is not the case there. they took all the default free weapons and reduced the amount of bullets in a mag, reduced all the damage on the free weapons per round fired and added massive amounts of recoil and sway. they are useless. i played that game for months from early closed beta to open and when they made the changes it became impossible to compete. ive been playing FPS since doom 1. i know when i play a game how competitive you can be with defaults. and in BFP4F you cannot compete with people who pay. you can by boosters that add huge amounts of damage to explosives and such. the rpg rocket booster adds massive amounts of damage, increases the blast radius and does no self damage. it can be fired at your feet. people now use it as a default gun. watch this video for an idea how OP the boosters are. its got dubstep be warned! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_OYjdSN_zA and trust me there are no fan boys defending BFP4f. there are plenty of fan boys threatening legal action because they actually removed most of the original paid for guns and replaced them with a new system of payed for attachments on payed for guns. you have to buy every attachment for your particular gun after you have bought the gun to get back to the guns they sold (at quite high prices) originally. its the worst type of P2W i have seen so far. the facts remain. i havnt paid any money and am at no disadvantage in TA. there isnt any need to give them money unless you want to save time. so therefore its not p2w, how can it be.
Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:26 pm

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Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

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satarc

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 100

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

800mm wrote:

Wobberjockey wrote:

#4. THE GAME IS NOT PAY 2 WIN.

And who decides this, you? You cling to this petty, obsolete definition of pay to win, you assume - declare, rather, that its absolute, and expect to be taken seriously?

There may have been some good advice in your post (really, common sense), but this simply makes you come across as a poster not worth reading, a large slice of your other posts still litters the board as I type this.

You need to stop spamming, you really do.

lolz. ill tell you who decided if its pay2win or not. the dictionary m8. words have meaning. if i play a game and the best weapons are only available with my real money its pay2win. if i can buy the weapons in game without spending any money and they arnt flat out better (but just alternatives) its F2P. i havnt spent any money and i win therefore its F2P. simple.

now if you get pwnd all the time cos you suck then maybe its better for your fragile ego to QQ pay2win all the time. ill bet your one of those players who continually spams the chat with P2W noob every time some one beats you down. well lift your game instead of getting bitter m8.

and TBH m8 "but this simply makes you come across as a poster not worth reading" and "You need to stop spamming, you really do" is basically what your doing with continual P2W whine. pot calling kettle much.

IIITTTSSSS NNNOOOTTTTT PPPP22222WWWWW!!!

Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:36 am

DuckBlitz

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:14 am
Posts: 177

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

+1

It is counterproductive to the betterment of the game and our voice as the community being heard when the front page is constantly littered with redundant and often unconstructive threads that only serve to draw attention away from the kind of useful feedback we all want to get heard.

Remember also that when you are replying to these kinds of threads, you are bumping them and thus giving them visibility. It's often better to just let them die than fuel an unconstructive discussion that will provoke more replies. Do that kind of discussing on the general board but please, let's remember that this board is only for us to help improve the game and anything that undermines that cause should be avoided.

Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:47 am

LordOpeth

Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:01 pm
Posts: 648

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

Wobber-

Yet again you are wrong! I am a precious little flower.

Good post dude.. \m/

_________________
T1 - MrBungle
T2 - (ZOC) MrBungle

Why does allot here expcept dieng in big KABOOM glory but dont give honnor to the silent laser thro your head in air HS your dead ? -uFr49

Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:30 am

Wobberjockey

Beta Tester

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 am
Posts: 8726
Location: In a handbasket, heading somewhere

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

800mm wrote:

Wobberjockey wrote:

#4. THE GAME IS NOT PAY 2 WIN.

i guess this is just my opinion then.

and the folks at TV tropes just happen to share it

Quote:

This is primarily an advertising trope about a mismatch between PR and reality. If the commercials bandy about terms like “FREE,” “UNLIMITED” and “WITHOUT PAYING” while the ability to complete or be competitive within the game is walled off for those who don't dish dough (or even those who do!), you've got yourself an Allegedly Free Game. (If the game is promoted as unambiguously commercial in nature, all monetary elements are purely cosmetic, or they're minor enough that you could genuinely play the game for free and never miss them, then it doesn't belong here.)

Sometimes you're restricted to a "free" zone and have to repeatedly buy access to the rest of the game piece by piece, sometimes you're incapable of gaining certain abilities or items without buying them with real world money, sometimes you can buy a copy or pay a subscription fee (and even then, additional purchases may be needed.) Any way that you cut this, you aren't going to get very far without reaching for your wallet. Some combination of Freemium, and Microtransactions will likely be involved in this.

just because in your mind F2P = P2W doesn't mean it is. you still need to aim at the right angle, you still need to pull the trigger at the right time, and your shot will still do the same damage no matter if you payed for a weapon or ground it out.

real examples of P2W just so you can compare to this game (which really isn't)

Quote:

Battlefield Heroes recently underwent this. It used to be you could buy clothing and other extras for real money, and buy the guns and essential using in-game currency. Then, EA (of course) jacked up the prices in in-game currency by 20 times, no exaggeration, and made it a lot easier to buy stuff using real money, making it effectively useless to use in-game currency. Then added new, better guns, available only with real money. Interestingly enough, this is the exact thing they promised wouldn't happen when they introduced the game.

Quote:

Champions Online has a "Free For All" setup, where anyone can play nearly all of the game's content for free. However, the free Silver accounts have severe restrictions placed on character customization (fewer costume choices, a handful of Archetypes, limited bag slots, and a limited selection of travel powers) and have to purchase access to the Adventure Packs (optional repayable mission content). Still, this is mostly an aversion of this trope as it is entirely feasible to level a character all the way up to end-game content without spending a penny on the game: nothing that is essential requires a purchase.
All of the above restrictions can be bypassed by spending real money to unlock the restricted content; but there are two aspects of The game which are only available to the subscription-based Gold accounts: power customization (what color is my energy blast? does it come from my palm, fist, chest, or head? etc.) and Freeform characters (which are superior in every way to the Archetypes, both in terms of how much freedom you have in choosing powers and how many powers you can choose). Silver accounts are definitely second-class citizens in the game; though they are not outcasts.

Quote:

Evony advertises itself as "Free Forever", but the only reliable way to get special items is to buy them for real money. This includes the Michelangelo's Script, a requirement to upgrade a building to its highest level, for $5 per upgrade. It also includes medals, which you'll have to buy if you want to have more than two cities at once. They also have three separate "free gifts", the best of which requires the player to spend $100. The worst part is that the game coins are called "cents" even though each cent costs $0.10, to make things seem cheaper. (All figures in US dollars.)

Quote:

Runes of Magic: You will never be as good as the guy sitting next to you who buys the in-game currency without paying the same amount or more, or a ridiculous amount of time.
Assuming you choose the time route, you need to farm 10 turn-ins of whatever Daily Quest you choose, turn those in, and get 100 tokens which are basically a free version of the diamonds, but with half the item selection at like 5-20 times the price they cost in diamonds. a Purified Fusion Stone, 6 of which are needed to make the best gear possible, costs a whopping 1100 tokens, vs. 55 diamonds when they're NOT on sale, as low as 25 dias (in a 5 pack) when they ARE. that's 11 days for one stone, 66 for one piece of gear. Furthermore, you have at least 16 items to stat, if you use a two handed weapon. 17 if you're a knight with a shield. 18 for scout/rogues, who stat both daggers and use their bow as their main weapon. 1056 days of farming for the minimal amount of puri stones for one set of gear. almost 2.9 YEARS. 1188 for the aforementioned scout/rogues. That's 3 and a quarter years of farming. Did i forget to mention you'll end up statting at least three or four full set's worth? All this is ignoring the equally sized set you'll need for your secondary class, if you choose to stat a set of gear for it, too. Let's not forget the Arcane Transmuter charges, which are 300 for ten of them on the tokens. 3 extra days per armor piece, 1-2 more months. Then there's tiering your weapons, required if you want to do any real damage ever. Also gear refinement on top of the statting and tiering. You're practically required to farm the local Money Spiders and slowly earn millions of gold to buy statted armor, the best of which runs AT LEAST 4 million per piece. /rant.

so you're complaining about a game that's in beta that's asking you for ~1 day of play time (13 days at just 2 hours a day, so 26 hours. YMMV) to unlock a weapon. that weapon will allow you to shoot the exact same projectiles that someone who spent 7 bucks on it would shoot. you'll do the exact same damage with it, and you need to aim the exact same way. and guess what, if you are a better shot, you'll WIN more often than the guy who dropped real money... and you STILL think this is pay to win?

my GOD man. back up and get some bloody perspective

and ps. i don't spam. it's just a never ending battle to keep that special brand of willful ignorance out of the forums. if you see me posting a lot in your threads, there could be a correlation... now stop derailing my thread

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The Tribes READ ME. Quite possibly the most important thread you'll never read

Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:10 pm

satarc

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 100

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

not to mention BFP4f which is about as P2W as you can get.

Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:21 pm

800mm

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:41 am
Posts: 105

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

Wobberjockey wrote:

i guess this is just my opinion then.

It is, and there is really nothing you can attach to this statement to change its nature.
You don't think in T:A paying money grants you an advantage? Thats your opinion, its yours, nobody can take it from you, and you're not forced to change it.

satarc wrote:

not to mention BFP4f which is about as P2W as you can get.

Bingo, "as p2w as you can get" suggests that there are "varying degrees" of p2w, money only direct upgrades being at the top (which is probably the case for BFP4f yeah?).

You got it right, "p2w" is not binary, there are many paid advantages and varying dregrees of accessibility to them besides money, that defines "how p2w a game feels".

When people look confused as I pump an MKD disc, followed by 4 blue ones in rapid succession, thats an advantage I have, its massive, how massive? 52k? XP for the discs, and some 30k? for the quickdraw perk.

How the victim wants to overcome this advantage is up to them, money for the initial unlock and boosters to clear the xp? boosters all the way? no booster and no gold? its up to them, whatever they chose determines for how long do I curbstomp them.

But the whole point of this system (as stated by todd harris in an interview), is that you stomp your victim with a weapon, so much that they will want to unlock it right after - ingame even.

If thats not the basic premise of p2w to you, I don't know what is.

Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:40 pm

foobeer

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:48 pm
Posts: 139

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

While I agree with most of your points and that they are meant to be helpful, the forum in general usually goes more like:

1. Use Search - we know this sucks, so please be prepared to wait 30 seconds to a minute between each search or while going to each page because you will get locked out.
2. Check post date - now that you have wasted your time on a poor search engine, if you decide to post a reply, we will all yell NECRO at you.
OR
3. Post new thread- now we will yell at you and tell you that your thoughts do not deserve a new thread and that you need to stop whining and learn 2 play.
WHICH brings us to the next and final point
4. You are not special, so just lurk - if you want to participate, please just reply with a "+1" to anything that is on the first two pages of the current threads. You are allowed to agree with the us, but not to add your own thoughts.

This is not trying to go against the intention of your post, because nobody likes when the first couple of forum pages get cluttered with ill-informed rants or things that have been discussed numerous times. It's just that both new and veteran players should be encouraged to participate and discuss constructively, instead of being advised that they aren't special and don't deserve to be heard. I once read a wise post that stated "attitude is everything."

Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:25 pm

satarc

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 100

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

800mm wrote:

listen m8 i dont know how old you are or if your "special" but here's a tip (that by the way you post will be useful IRL) if you think something and the world disagrees with you then its an indication that you are wrong.

you come over, through the things you write, as very arrogant and unable to see when you are wrong.

BFP4F is impossible to play without giving them your money. so much so that most of the closed beta testers (me included) became appalled at the way the implemented the system and left in protest. because it went from F2P to P2W. originally it was the same as TA and you could play for free on an even field. then they changed the system and you stand no chance with the defaults. and can only get better items by paying.

that might happen in TA but as it stands that is not the case. you can argue all day long that some weapons are better than others but you seem to be on your own (or at least in a small minority) with that one. and even if they are you dont need to pay money for them. jesus.

this "When people look confused as I pump an MKD disc, followed by 4 blue ones in rapid succession, thats an advantage I have, its massive" is rubbish. you are using emotional language to try and prove your week point. no one weapon is better than the alternative defaults. and people dont look confused as you put it. those weapons are being spammed in all the rounds i play. no one is looking as you try to pwn them thinking ooohhh wow whats that thing.

you have no advantage over anyone else. you may have in certain circumstances but then the other player with defaults will in another.

im afraid P2W is binary, although you can have varying degrees of the P2W systems. do i have to pay to win. no. ok then its not pay to win. do i have to pay to win. yes. then its P2W. the only reason you are using blurred lines as an argument is because you are trying to argue an invalid point and have no facts.

"How the victim wants to overcome this advantage is up to them, money for the initial unlock and boosters to clear the xp? boosters all the way? no booster and no gold? its up to them, whatever they chose determines for how long do I curbstomp them."

you have said it in this statement. "they can over come with no booster and no gold". so therefore its not P2W.

serioulsy i know your not gonna get it but at least if some of us point out your logical fallacies then other people reading might understand its not P2W.

and finaly "If thats not the basic premise of p2w to you, I don't know what is" no clearly you do not.

Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:29 pm

C1trom

Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:48 am
Posts: 355

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

satarc wrote:

800mm wrote:

I could bet you anything you could find fanboys still on BFP4F who would still defend its P2W system with the same arguments you use here, and it is technically still possible to win if you don't pay anything. Given by your definition P2W would imply that the game would simply kick you if you happened to win, or you have to fight people armed to the teeth while you literally have nothing to fight back with, which I'm sure is not the case there.

Just because you can get from point A to point B for free if you chew your way through a brick wall, that doesn't mean someone paying 10 bucks to use a door instead isn't at a significant advantage.

This game definitely has one of the best F2P play systems out there, and I applaud Hi-Rez for that, but its definitely not flawless either.

I'm not naming specific items because I don't want to derail the thread completely but there are a few unlockable weapons and items that could use some balancing and tweaking to avoid P2W accusations. And it should be fairly obvious what items are theese, for people who actually play the game and read theese forums.

And btw I actually paid for this game and enjoying its advantages myself (although i mostly did it because i wanted to support the developers, not because i fancied a specific item), but I'd enjoy a level playing field and balanced classes and items even more. Because its simply crucial for a competitive FPS.

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Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:00 pm

satarc

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 100

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

C1trom wrote:

they took all the default free weapons and reduced the amount of bullets in a mag, reduced all the damage on the free weapons per round fired and added massive amounts of recoil and sway. they are useless.

i played that game for months from early closed beta to open and when they made the changes it became impossible to compete. ive been playing FPS since doom 1. i know when i play a game how competitive you can be with defaults. and in BFP4F you cannot compete with people who pay. you can by boosters that add huge amounts of damage to explosives and such. the rpg rocket booster adds massive amounts of damage, increases the blast radius and does no self damage. it can be fired at your feet. people now use it as a default gun.

watch this video for an idea how OP the boosters are. its got dubstep be warned!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_OYjdSN_zA

and trust me there are no fan boys defending BFP4f. there are plenty of fan boys threatening legal action because they actually removed most of the original paid for guns and replaced them with a new system of payed for attachments on payed for guns. you have to buy every attachment for your particular gun after you have bought the gun to get back to the guns they sold (at quite high prices) originally. its the worst type of P2W i have seen so far.

the facts remain. i havnt paid any money and am at no disadvantage in TA. there isnt any need to give them money unless you want to save time. so therefore its not p2w, how can it be.

Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:26 pm

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