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800mm Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:41 am Posts: 105	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! @Gehnster @wobber What part of "having an advantage for 25 days, is still an advantage for 25 days" you don't understand? What part of "multiple weapons will be added monthly" you don't understand? You don't even try to argue, you wholly refute the central point and then write out why in your personal opinion this is fine, or you refute the argument by clinging to an obsolete definition of what constitutes pay to win. I'm sorry, thats not how arguments work. Paying yields an advantage, for 25 days only maybe, but after those 25 days 2-3 more new weapons will be added. And the cycle continues. - Isnt it ironic that you still couldn't understand this simple concept and then accuse others to lack reading compehension?
Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:11 am

Wobberjockey Beta Tester Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 am Posts: 8726 Location: In a handbasket, heading somewhere	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! even if new content is added monthly, it isn't required to be combat effective. a new mortar for the juggernauts doesn't affect pathfinders. your whole premise is that somehow, some way new weapon Y is in all ways superior to old weapon X. if they aren't, there is no issue. and don't trot out the inf SF and the falcon. the falcon is OP and everyone knows it, and the INF sf actually does less damage and is less combat effective than the rhino. this isn't a game where i need to unlock every single weapon on every single class to be able to do a job and do it well _________________ original art at http://tinyurl.com/shazbotsig The Tribes READ ME. Quite possibly the most important thread you'll never read
Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:17 pm

UgotME Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:37 am Posts: 7	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! Wobberjockey wrote: this isn't a game where i need to unlock every single weapon on every single class to be able to do a job and do it well This statement can not be stressed enough! I have been playing tribes for over 12 years (ok, once t:v came out I played t2... but the pub participation went null and void) I have seen people with skill destroy someone with the basic weapons. This was even on shifter and havoc mods t1/t2. T:V just did not seem like a tribes game to me, but that is just my 2 cents on t:v. I did buy and play it a little but not enough to see if 'advanced' weapons defeated 'skilled' players regardless of weapons so I can not comment on that title. Point being, I see this game very close to t1/t2 (closest than anything else) and trust me there is no pay to win aspect...but definately a 'play' to win aspect. It took many of us tribes players countless hours learning the t1 ski method which carried over to t2 method which is what I feel is present in ascend as well. The battles 'feel' the same and the duels/combat brings that old familiar satisfaction feeling when winning a long battle between two players and even losing thinking.. if I only drifted left instead of right... To the OP, thank you for the thread it is very useful! and some points should just be forum universal... ie search function!!! ggs!
Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:11 pm

Zero-Optix Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:04 pm Posts: 249	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! good points also i wish i had as much time on my hands as some of you here. _________________ ~Starsiege 2845: ~ concept artist ~ skinner~ http://zero-optix.deviantart.com/gallery/
Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:42 pm

BurntToShreds Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:12 am Posts: 100	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! What forum do I use if I want to discuss issues pertaining to a specific class or classes? I don't want to mis-post and end up causing trouble.
Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:29 pm

Wobberjockey Beta Tester Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 am Posts: 8726 Location: In a handbasket, heading somewhere	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! the general forum is fine, there are no class specific forums yet _________________ original art at http://tinyurl.com/shazbotsig The Tribes READ ME. Quite possibly the most important thread you'll never read
Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:18 pm

lamebot Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:32 pm Posts: 215	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! We need a last read post functionality(a link that takes you to the last read post in a thread before any newer posts). Most forums with this functionality place a small link linking to the last read post next to the thread title in the thread list. Just takes additional use of the forums cookie. Figured this thread would be the place to address this.
Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:53 pm

Wobberjockey Beta Tester Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 am Posts: 8726 Location: In a handbasket, heading somewhere	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! lamebot wrote: We need a last read post functionality(a link that takes you to the last read post in a thread before any newer posts). Most forums with this functionality place a small link linking to the last read post next to the thread title in the thread list. Just takes additional use of the forums cookie. Figured this thread would be the place to address this. that functionality is already in (if i understand you properly) click on the little arrow to the left of the thread title the one that looks like this _________________ original art at http://tinyurl.com/shazbotsig The Tribes READ ME. Quite possibly the most important thread you'll never read
Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:52 am

lamebot Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:32 pm Posts: 215	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! Wobberjockey wrote: lamebot wrote: We need a last read post functionality(a link that takes you to the last read post in a thread before any newer posts). Most forums with this functionality place a small link linking to the last read post next to the thread title in the thread list. Just takes additional use of the forums cookie. Figured this thread would be the place to address this. that functionality is already in (if i understand you properly) click on the little arrow to the left of the thread title the one that looks like this No, that takes you to the last post, not the last post you read. It's kinda hard to explain. Like if i left now and came back to this thread later and I used the feature I mentioned I'd be taken to the post after this one because this is my last read post.
Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:58 pm

Heiligerhammer Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:03 pm Posts: 5	Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post! 800mm wrote: Wobberjockey wrote: until you bring something more factual than your opinion I have, you chose to ignore it, and you insist on passing your opinion as facts. I've already replied to satarc (maybe in this thread?) since he got the idea right, and you did too, without noticing, there are many degrees of pay to win, some are extreme, some are tame, but their nature is still pay to win. Nothing changes that fact. Still confused? Let me quote yourself: Wobberjockey wrote: paying real money gives you a very large tactical advantage Here you understand that paying money and receiving an advantage constitutes pay to win, the problem is that you define "p2w" only games where the advantage is gigantic, this is a problem, you are somehow convinced that the size of the advantage changes the nature of the problem, but its really just your opinion. This is why HiRez can (and should) manipulate you into thinking the game is not pay to win, more on that on the end of the post. Thats very important so if you wish to ignore the post, at least go read that, I'll make it blue. Wobberjockey wrote: T:A in it's current state is nowhere near as bad Good, good, you got it right, its still pay to win, but its "not as pay to win" as those very bad pay to win games, the problem is that its still pay to win no matter how you look at it. Wobberjockey wrote: you show me how having paid for a MIRV puts player X at some sort of advantage over player Y who spent XP and got it later. Sure, lets take 2 players, Jonas and Cortez, ok? Jonas is a payer, Cortez is a free player. They both play juggernaut, and they both want to help their team win by clearing the flagstand. Now, its undeniable MIRV is the better tool, right? Its designed for it, now Cortez has to grind 100,000XP for the MIRV, lets say he averages 1200 XP per hour as a nonpayer, lets say he plays enough, say 3 hours, and everyday, of course lets keep in mind first win of the day. You'll have noticed I have been very generous with the XP rate, this is to favor you, since factoring in load times, 5-0s and so on, it really is a lot less than 1200, but moving on. Cortez will have to keep up for about 21 days, before he has access to MIRV, and he can be as effective as Jonas is. Now this is not just "a direct upgrade" weapon, this is one of those weapons most consider a sidegrade (unlike the X1 and throwing discs, which as far as I can tell are seen as direct upgrades). Versatility is still power. Sounds fair? No? Well thats because it isnt. But thats the way it is, so what can HiRez do, now that thay took the wrong business model and decided to stick with it? They can change the prices around, so that Cortez can get that MIRV sooner, that way, it won't feel as pay to win, and this is where I get back at what I said earlier. Ok. I'm sorry and I know I'm new or whatever but what you just said, while making sense to state your purpose... Makes NO sense as far as a business model. I believe the point of a business is to make money. If you give the players NO incentive to spend money then guess what... They won't. QQ... 21 whole days to buy an item in a game you payed nothing for to be "competitive" against someone who actually supported the company and paid for the item. Also... Let's keep in mind that 1200/ hour isn't that hard. Hell I had a 1200 XP GAME today and I just started playing yesterday. It's not like the items are unobtainable or so OP that you MUST have them in order to win. And it's a good thing that you're not running this "failing" business model or no one would have ANY incentive to buy gold and the company would go under. We could all just play for a week and have everything!!! Shoot me down if ya want... It's just the .02 of the new guy.
Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:25 am

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Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

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800mm

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:41 am
Posts: 105

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

@Gehnster
@wobber

What part of "having an advantage for 25 days, is still an advantage for 25 days" you don't understand?
What part of "multiple weapons will be added monthly" you don't understand?

You don't even try to argue, you wholly refute the central point and then write out why in your personal opinion this is fine, or you refute the argument by clinging to an obsolete definition of what constitutes pay to win. I'm sorry, thats not how arguments work.

Paying yields an advantage, for 25 days only maybe, but after those 25 days 2-3 more new weapons will be added. And the cycle continues.

-
Isnt it ironic that you still couldn't understand this simple concept and then accuse others to lack reading compehension?

Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:11 am

Wobberjockey

Beta Tester

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 am
Posts: 8726
Location: In a handbasket, heading somewhere

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

even if new content is added monthly, it isn't required to be combat effective. a new mortar for the juggernauts doesn't affect pathfinders.

your whole premise is that somehow, some way new weapon Y is in all ways superior to old weapon X.

if they aren't, there is no issue.

and don't trot out the inf SF and the falcon.
the falcon is OP and everyone knows it, and the INF sf actually does less damage and is less combat effective than the rhino.

this isn't a game where i need to unlock every single weapon on every single class to be able to do a job and do it well

_________________

original art at http://tinyurl.com/shazbotsig
The Tribes READ ME. Quite possibly the most important thread you'll never read

Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:17 pm

UgotME

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:37 am
Posts: 7

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

Wobberjockey wrote:

this isn't a game where i need to unlock every single weapon on every single class to be able to do a job and do it well

This statement can not be stressed enough!

I have been playing tribes for over 12 years (ok, once t:v came out I played t2... but the pub participation went null and void) I have seen people with skill destroy someone with the basic weapons. This was even on shifter and havoc mods t1/t2. T:V just did not seem like a tribes game to me, but that is just my 2 cents on t:v. I did buy and play it a little but not enough to see if 'advanced' weapons defeated 'skilled' players regardless of weapons so I can not comment on that title.

Point being, I see this game very close to t1/t2 (closest than anything else) and trust me there is no pay to win aspect...but definately a 'play' to win aspect. It took many of us tribes players countless hours learning the t1 ski method which carried over to t2 method which is what I feel is present in ascend as well. The battles 'feel' the same and the duels/combat brings that old familiar satisfaction feeling when winning a long battle between two players and even losing thinking.. if I only drifted left instead of right...

To the OP, thank you for the thread it is very useful! and some points should just be forum universal... ie search function!!!
ggs!

Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:11 pm

Zero-Optix

Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:04 pm
Posts: 249

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

good points
also
i wish i had as much time on my hands as some of you here.

_________________

~Starsiege 2845: ~ concept artist ~ skinner~
http://zero-optix.deviantart.com/gallery/

Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:42 pm

BurntToShreds

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:12 am
Posts: 100

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

What forum do I use if I want to discuss issues pertaining to a specific class or classes? I don't want to mis-post and end up causing trouble.

Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:29 pm

Wobberjockey

Beta Tester

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 am
Posts: 8726
Location: In a handbasket, heading somewhere

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

the general forum is fine, there are no class specific forums yet

_________________

original art at http://tinyurl.com/shazbotsig
The Tribes READ ME. Quite possibly the most important thread you'll never read

Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:18 pm

lamebot

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:32 pm
Posts: 215

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

We need a last read post functionality(a link that takes you to the last read post in a thread before any newer posts). Most forums with this functionality place a small link linking to the last read post next to the thread title in the thread list. Just takes additional use of the forums cookie. Figured this thread would be the place to address this.

Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:53 pm

Wobberjockey

Beta Tester

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:30 am
Posts: 8726
Location: In a handbasket, heading somewhere

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

lamebot wrote:

that functionality is already in (if i understand you properly)

click on the little arrow to the left of the thread title
the one that looks like this

_________________

original art at http://tinyurl.com/shazbotsig
The Tribes READ ME. Quite possibly the most important thread you'll never read

Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:52 am

lamebot

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:32 pm
Posts: 215

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

Wobberjockey wrote:

lamebot wrote:

that functionality is already in (if i understand you properly)

click on the little arrow to the left of the thread title
the one that looks like this

No, that takes you to the last post, not the last post you read. It's kinda hard to explain.

Like if i left now and came back to this thread later and I used the feature I mentioned I'd be taken to the post after this one because this is my last read post.

Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:58 pm

Heiligerhammer

Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:03 pm
Posts: 5

Re: Tips for new posters: Please read before you post!

800mm wrote:

Wobberjockey wrote:

until you bring something more factual than your opinion

I have, you chose to ignore it, and you insist on passing your opinion as facts.

I've already replied to satarc (maybe in this thread?) since he got the idea right, and you did too, without noticing, there are many degrees of pay to win, some are extreme, some are tame, but their nature is still pay to win.

Nothing changes that fact.

Still confused? Let me quote yourself:

Wobberjockey wrote:

paying real money gives you a very large tactical advantage

Here you understand that paying money and receiving an advantage constitutes pay to win, the problem is that you define "p2w" only games where the advantage is gigantic, this is a problem, you are somehow convinced that the size of the advantage changes the nature of the problem, but its really just your opinion.
This is why HiRez can (and should) manipulate you into thinking the game is not pay to win, more on that on the end of the post.
Thats very important so if you wish to ignore the post, at least go read that, I'll make it blue.

Wobberjockey wrote:

T:A in it's current state is nowhere near as bad

Good, good, you got it right, its still pay to win, but its "not as pay to win" as those very bad pay to win games, the problem is that its still pay to win no matter how you look at it.

Wobberjockey wrote:

you show me how having paid for a MIRV puts player X at some sort of advantage over player Y who spent XP and got it later.

Sure, lets take 2 players, Jonas and Cortez, ok? Jonas is a payer, Cortez is a free player.
They both play juggernaut, and they both want to help their team win by clearing the flagstand.

Now, its undeniable MIRV is the better tool, right? Its designed for it, now Cortez has to grind 100,000XP for the MIRV, lets say he averages 1200 XP per hour as a nonpayer, lets say he plays enough, say 3 hours, and everyday, of course lets keep in mind first win of the day.
You'll have noticed I have been very generous with the XP rate, this is to favor you, since factoring in load times, 5-0s and so on, it really is a lot less than 1200, but moving on.

Cortez will have to keep up for about 21 days, before he has access to MIRV, and he can be as effective as Jonas is. Now this is not just "a direct upgrade" weapon, this is one of those weapons most consider a sidegrade (unlike the X1 and throwing discs, which as far as I can tell are seen as direct upgrades). Versatility is still power.

Sounds fair? No? Well thats because it isnt.
But thats the way it is, so what can HiRez do, now that thay took the wrong business model and decided to stick with it? They can change the prices around, so that Cortez can get that MIRV sooner, that way, it won't feel as pay to win, and this is where I get back at what I said earlier.

Ok. I'm sorry and I know I'm new or whatever but what you just said, while making sense to state your purpose... Makes NO sense as far as a business model. I believe the point of a business is to make money. If you give the players NO incentive to spend money then guess what... They won't.

QQ... 21 whole days to buy an item in a game you payed nothing for to be "competitive" against someone who actually supported the company and paid for the item. Also... Let's keep in mind that 1200/ hour isn't that hard. Hell I had a 1200 XP GAME today and I just started playing yesterday.

It's not like the items are unobtainable or so OP that you MUST have them in order to win. And it's a good thing that you're not running this "failing" business model or no one would have ANY incentive to buy gold and the company would go under. We could all just play for a week and have everything!!!

:roll:

Shoot me down if ya want... It's just the .02 of the new guy.

Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:25 am

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