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please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP
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Rambowjo Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:48 am Posts: 57	Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP Rambowjo wrote: RootbeerAlamode wrote: Dear hi-rez. Good. Bad. Host = Tribes players Contestants = Developers First contestant searches for the correct number binarily and finds it within 8 seconds (few patches). Second contestant searches for the correct number iteratively and never finds it (infinity patches). I'm cross posting this from the 100+ page inheritance thread.
Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 pm

TheEschaton Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:53 pm Posts: 2953 Steam Gamer Name: LeadProphet	Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP Shrymp wrote: TheEschaton wrote: SmoothP wrote: I think I finally figured Hi-Rez out... If we had decent physics or even just systems that made sense people might find the game slightly educational, and that's a big no no in the South. C'mon SmoothP, we don't need to use this thread to insult HiRez with regionalist BS. We really just need these things fixed. Please, HiRez. I know you read all of our crap. This thread is better than most because it shows the unanimous opinion of the unwashed masses. At the very least let's have an open dialogue about why these physics changes aren't happening, and at the most let's see moves toward implementing the ideas put forward here by the community, for the sake of earning you more respect and a solid reputation in the industry as the one company that knows how to use its community. We all want you to succeed, I think. My parents lived in Atlanta for 3 years, and my fiancee is from Atlanta... I can verify SmoothP's statement. Dude, it's not about whatever BS anyone perceives to be true. It's about being courteous. Everyone's momma teaches them from an early age that if you want someone to do something nice for you, you don't insult them while doing it. In any case, when I was a B2B software salesman briefly I went to Alpharetta, which is where HiRez is actually located. My experience is that the town is full of businessmen and scientific types who retain an exceptionally high level of education. I'd guess the median in that community is a master's degree, at least. Let's keep our biases and yank jokes to ourselves, eh? _________________ Carrion (in-game name)
Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:47 pm

root Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:30 pm Posts: 856	Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP TheEschaton wrote: Dude, it's not about whatever BS anyone perceives to be true. It's about being courteous. Everyone's momma teaches them from an early age that if you want someone to do something nice for you, you don't insult them while doing it. In any case, when I was a B2B software salesman briefly I went to Alpharetta, which is where HiRez is actually located. My experience is that the town is full of businessmen and scientific types who retain an exceptionally high level of education. I'd guess the median in that community is a master's degree, at least. Let's keep our biases and yank jokes to ourselves, eh? You're correct in that there's far too much frustration manifesting itself in angry posts. I don't think Smooth was ACTUALLY bashing Alpharetta; facetiousness is a beautiful thing. My fiancee and her family are PhD's. Atlanta has a ton of very smart people (I mean, CNN and coke HQ's are there). Yo dawg, I heard you like some facetiousness, so I made your facetiousness more facetious and then facetiously posted that very facetiousness.
Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:51 pm

TheEschaton Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:53 pm Posts: 2953 Steam Gamer Name: LeadProphet	Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP Shrymp wrote: TheEschaton wrote: Dude, it's not about whatever BS anyone perceives to be true. It's about being courteous. Everyone's momma teaches them from an early age that if you want someone to do something nice for you, you don't insult them while doing it. In any case, when I was a B2B software salesman briefly I went to Alpharetta, which is where HiRez is actually located. My experience is that the town is full of businessmen and scientific types who retain an exceptionally high level of education. I'd guess the median in that community is a master's degree, at least. Let's keep our biases and yank jokes to ourselves, eh? You're correct in that there's far too much frustration manifesting itself in angry posts. I don't think Smooth was ACTUALLY bashing Alpharetta; facetiousness is a beautiful thing. My fiancee and her family are PhD's. Atlanta has a ton of very smart people (I mean, CNN and coke HQ's are there). Yo dawg, I heard you like some facetiousness, so I made your facetiousness more facetious and then facetiously posted that very facetiousness. Well, I got trolled then. 10/10. But to the point, I want to hear from HiRez what we can do as individuals to help move the game in this direction. Is there some kind of metric you're looking at in-game that's keeping you from implementing these mostly long-suggested suggestions? The current physics model is unsustainable esp. on larger maps. Abandoned Temple proves that conclusively, to my mind. _________________ Carrion (in-game name)
Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:07 pm

coulrophobia Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:36 pm Posts: 210	Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP Shrymp wrote: TheEschaton wrote: Dude, it's not about whatever BS anyone perceives to be true. It's about being courteous. Everyone's momma teaches them from an early age that if you want someone to do something nice for you, you don't insult them while doing it. In any case, when I was a B2B software salesman briefly I went to Alpharetta, which is where HiRez is actually located. My experience is that the town is full of businessmen and scientific types who retain an exceptionally high level of education. I'd guess the median in that community is a master's degree, at least. Let's keep our biases and yank jokes to ourselves, eh? You're correct in that there's far too much frustration manifesting itself in angry posts. I don't think Smooth was ACTUALLY bashing Alpharetta; facetiousness is a beautiful thing. My fiancee and her family are PhD's. Atlanta has a ton of very smart people (I mean, CNN and coke HQ's are there). Yo dawg, I heard you like some facetiousness, so I made your facetiousness more facetious and then facetiously posted that very facetiousness. true but people that work for cnn are not that smart
Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:08 pm

Moxieus Beta Tester Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:02 am Posts: 485	Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP +1 lets have some consistency. I know that it is easier to patch the current system to get something that approaches what we expect, but the more it is cobbled together the clunkier it feels. _________________ - Moxie
Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:10 pm

root Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:30 pm Posts: 856	Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP TheEschaton wrote: Well, I got trolled then. 10/10. But to the point, I want to hear from HiRez what we can do as individuals to help move the game in this direction. Is there some kind of metric you're looking at in-game that's keeping you from implementing these mostly long-suggested suggestions? The current physics model is unsustainable esp. on larger maps. Abandoned Temple proves that conclusively, to my mind. Not "trolled" just some light humor. So maybe light trolling The problem, my friend, is that Hi-Rez refuses to talk to us. There is a 117 page thread about inheritance and not a single post from HR. There have been literally over a dozen threads on the state of chasing and/or the state of speed/jets/energy (which directly affects chasing), and not a single post. At some point within the last ~2-3 months, people have realized that HR sucks at communication. So naturally, instead of trying to work with them, people are becoming increasingly hostile. It's offensive that they would pose a beta to players, and simply ignore feedback. I understand the concept of a "vocal minority," but when there is SERIOUS physics and math being done in support of these changes, it's extremely rude and offensive to completely ignore them/us.
Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:13 pm

shinklefinks Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:30 am Posts: 1	Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP agreed. Except about the air control... I need it to dodge those ridiculously accurate torrents.
Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:33 pm

TheEschaton Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:53 pm Posts: 2953 Steam Gamer Name: LeadProphet	Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP Shrymp wrote: TheEschaton wrote: Well, I got trolled then. 10/10. But to the point, I want to hear from HiRez what we can do as individuals to help move the game in this direction. Is there some kind of metric you're looking at in-game that's keeping you from implementing these mostly long-suggested suggestions? The current physics model is unsustainable esp. on larger maps. Abandoned Temple proves that conclusively, to my mind. Not "trolled" just some light humor. So maybe light trolling The problem, my friend, is that Hi-Rez refuses to talk to us. There is a 117 page thread about inheritance and not a single post from HR. There have been literally over a dozen threads on the state of chasing and/or the state of speed/jets/energy (which directly affects chasing), and not a single post. At some point within the last ~2-3 months, people have realized that HR sucks at communication. So naturally, instead of trying to work with them, people are becoming increasingly hostile. It's offensive that they would pose a beta to players, and simply ignore feedback. I understand the concept of a "vocal minority," but when there is SERIOUS physics and math being done in support of these changes, it's extremely rude and offensive to completely ignore them/us. The problem with that perception of HiRez is that it's mostly wrong. They actually are usually very responsive, and it has been noted multiple times that concepts born on these forums have been implemented in-game (the infiltrator speed flicker being only the latest and most obvious example). That's why it's so frustrating that they're being unresponsive on these key issues. It would appear that they have some deficiency in the physics programming department at HiRez since they are looking for an Unreal programmer with physics knowledge, but as a community I think we could understand if that was the case and perhaps we could help them codge together something that worked until they got a real professional. The 100% inheritance thread isn't really helping this, regardless of its length. I've been in there several times and the vast majority of posts I see are hyperbole, rhetoric without basis, and vapid beyond belief. Surely there are some great arguments in there, but they are rapidly buried. Worse, the community is fractured around the idea of 100% inheritance AFAIK. It is not as easy a design decision to make as it might seem, and as this post so clearly illustrates, inheritance is only a part of the larger physics problems this game has. They've already pretty much abandoned the iterative design philosophy for our sake, ever since the mega patch. Let's cut them a little slack while simultaneously not giving up on these key issues. We may have to compromise on some of them, but any move toward a physics as envisioned by this thread would be an improvement over the old smoke and mirrors. _________________ Carrion (in-game name)
Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:45 pm

KaneMalakos Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:47 am Posts: 22	Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP I certainly agree, particularly with the jetpack issue. It's quite frustrating to fall off the flag stand as a heavy, because it takes a full 5 seconds for the jets to recharge enough to get back on. And it's not really an energy issue, it's just that the jetpack is extremely weak.
Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:49 pm

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please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP

Author

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Rambowjo

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:48 am
Posts: 57

Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP

Rambowjo wrote:

RootbeerAlamode wrote:

Dear hi-rez.

Good.

Bad.

Host = Tribes players

Contestants = Developers

First contestant searches for the correct number binarily and finds it within 8 seconds (few patches).

Second contestant searches for the correct number iteratively and never finds it (infinity patches).

I'm cross posting this from the 100+ page inheritance thread.

Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 pm

TheEschaton

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:53 pm
Posts: 2953
Steam Gamer Name: LeadProphet

Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP

Shrymp wrote:

TheEschaton wrote:

SmoothP wrote:

I think I finally figured Hi-Rez out...

If we had decent physics or even just systems that made sense people might find the game slightly educational, and that's a big no no in the South.

C'mon SmoothP, we don't need to use this thread to insult HiRez with regionalist BS. We really just need these things fixed.

Please, HiRez. I know you read all of our crap. This thread is better than most because it shows the unanimous opinion of the unwashed masses. At the very least let's have an open dialogue about why these physics changes aren't happening, and at the most let's see moves toward implementing the ideas put forward here by the community, for the sake of earning you more respect and a solid reputation in the industry as the one company that knows how to use its community.

We all want you to succeed, I think.

My parents lived in Atlanta for 3 years, and my fiancee is from Atlanta... I can verify SmoothP's statement.

Dude, it's not about whatever BS anyone perceives to be true. It's about being courteous. Everyone's momma teaches them from an early age that if you want someone to do something nice for you, you don't insult them while doing it.

In any case, when I was a B2B software salesman briefly I went to Alpharetta, which is where HiRez is actually located. My experience is that the town is full of businessmen and scientific types who retain an exceptionally high level of education. I'd guess the median in that community is a master's degree, at least. Let's keep our biases and yank jokes to ourselves, eh?

_________________
Carrion (in-game name)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:47 pm

root

Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:30 pm
Posts: 856

Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP

TheEschaton wrote:

You're correct in that there's far too much frustration manifesting itself in angry posts. I don't think Smooth was ACTUALLY bashing Alpharetta; facetiousness is a beautiful thing.

My fiancee and her family are PhD's. Atlanta has a ton of very smart people (I mean, CNN and coke HQ's are there).

Yo dawg, I heard you like some facetiousness, so I made your facetiousness more facetious and then facetiously posted that very facetiousness.

Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:51 pm

TheEschaton

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:53 pm
Posts: 2953
Steam Gamer Name: LeadProphet

Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP

Shrymp wrote:

TheEschaton wrote:

Well, I got trolled then. 10/10. But to the point, I want to hear from HiRez what we can do as individuals to help move the game in this direction.

Is there some kind of metric you're looking at in-game that's keeping you from implementing these mostly long-suggested suggestions? The current physics model is unsustainable esp. on larger maps. Abandoned Temple proves that conclusively, to my mind.

_________________
Carrion (in-game name)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:07 pm

coulrophobia

Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:36 pm
Posts: 210

Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP

Shrymp wrote:

TheEschaton wrote:

true but people that work for cnn are not that smart :lol:

Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:08 pm

Moxieus

Beta Tester

Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 485

Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP

+1 lets have some consistency. I know that it is easier to patch the current system to get something that approaches what we expect, but the more it is cobbled together the clunkier it feels.

_________________
- Moxie

Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:10 pm

root

Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:30 pm
Posts: 856

Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP

TheEschaton wrote:

Not "trolled" just some light humor. So maybe light trolling

The problem, my friend, is that Hi-Rez refuses to talk to us. There is a 117 page thread about inheritance and not a single post from HR. There have been literally over a dozen threads on the state of chasing and/or the state of speed/jets/energy (which directly affects chasing), and not a single post.

At some point within the last ~2-3 months, people have realized that HR sucks at communication. So naturally, instead of trying to work with them, people are becoming increasingly hostile.

It's offensive that they would pose a beta to players, and simply ignore feedback. I understand the concept of a "vocal minority," but when there is SERIOUS physics and math being done in support of these changes, it's extremely rude and offensive to completely ignore them/us.

Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:13 pm

shinklefinks

Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:30 am
Posts: 1

Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP

agreed.
Except about the air control... I need it to dodge those ridiculously accurate torrents.

Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:33 pm

TheEschaton

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:53 pm
Posts: 2953
Steam Gamer Name: LeadProphet

Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP

Shrymp wrote:

TheEschaton wrote:

Not "trolled" just some light humor. So maybe light trolling

The problem with that perception of HiRez is that it's mostly wrong. They actually are usually very responsive, and it has been noted multiple times that concepts born on these forums have been implemented in-game (the infiltrator speed flicker being only the latest and most obvious example).

That's why it's so frustrating that they're being unresponsive on these key issues. It would appear that they have some deficiency in the physics programming department at HiRez since they are looking for an Unreal programmer with physics knowledge, but as a community I think we could understand if that was the case and perhaps we could help them codge together something that worked until they got a real professional.

The 100% inheritance thread isn't really helping this, regardless of its length. I've been in there several times and the vast majority of posts I see are hyperbole, rhetoric without basis, and vapid beyond belief. Surely there are some great arguments in there, but they are rapidly buried. Worse, the community is fractured around the idea of 100% inheritance AFAIK. It is not as easy a design decision to make as it might seem, and as this post so clearly illustrates, inheritance is only a part of the larger physics problems this game has.

They've already pretty much abandoned the iterative design philosophy for our sake, ever since the mega patch. Let's cut them a little slack while simultaneously not giving up on these key issues. We may have to compromise on some of them, but any move toward a physics as envisioned by this thread would be an improvement over the old smoke and mirrors.

_________________
Carrion (in-game name)

Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:45 pm

KaneMalakos

Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:47 am
Posts: 22

Re: please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP

I certainly agree, particularly with the jetpack issue. It's quite frustrating to fall off the flag stand as a heavy, because it takes a full 5 seconds for the jets to recharge enough to get back on. And it's not really an energy issue, it's just that the jetpack is extremely weak.

Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:49 pm

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please address the many CORE PHYSICS ISSUES ASAP